crickets - some of my thoughts on the upcoming Integra Type S

[Integra23]

I think the integra is rare and have seen alot of 11th gen civics. I think the type s will standout more that the ctr since it looks just like a normal civic that someone riced up with a spoiler.

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[Rdrcr]

Oddly for me , heated steering wheels are useless after the first 2 minutes when my hands start sweating , and sunroofs add unnecessary weight ( I rarely opened any of mine ). I really only care for heated / ventilated seats with ventilated being the preferred option if I had to choose. Everyone is different though, and I get that. Hopefully we all get some clarity this week.

It’s pretty cold where I’m at in the PNW. When I leave the house, I’m dressed for the weather when I get into the vehicle. The only item I’m not wearing; are gloves (because I want to be able to handle my keys, phone and firearm if necessary). So, I’m pretty good aside from my hands. I rarely use my heated seats, lol. The heated steering wheel is quite a luxury for me and I really appreciate warm hands in the morning. And, even then, I only run the heated steering for the first 5-10 miles of my commute.

Mike

 

[Rdrcr]

I have never owned a car without one...I literally use my sunroofs in the winter, even when in places like Chicago, Milwaukee, MSP etc. I use my to vent out interior air and get some fresh air inside. I also like how it gives an interior more natural light.

My real issue isnt so much that the Type S doesn't offer a sunroof...my issue is with the Aspec trims.

I may try to search for a Civic ST hatch with a stick again (if I can find one at MSRP or less) or I may bite the bullet and get a A-spec. Tech 6MT.. I enjoyedd driving an Apsec tech 6MT a few weeks back but it seems grossly overpriced for the lack of content you get for nearly 40K. The Civic-like interior I can get over but the lack of content (and more usable power) from the Aspec just doesn't sit well with me. I was willing to spend the extra dough for the TYpe S IF it had more content and power, but the loss of a sunroof and probably the lack of other amenties that even a GTI offers (ventilated seats, 360 cameras, rear AC vents, etc) just feels like Honda is being cheap.

The CTR being spartan is fine but really whats the point of the TYpe S if its not gonna have any real "luxury content" over the Type R? I migth as well just get a Type R. Adding a heated steering wheel as an accessory just reeks of Honda/Acura's cheapness. to me, too. This is supposed to be a premium sedan./hatch..why should we have to take apart the dash to add a feature that should already be standard on anything with leather these days. The tech package should at least have a heated steering wheel, rear ac vents, 360 camera, etc. as standard. Venitlated seats should be in that package too..and half of the stuff in the "tech pkg" ought to be standard (like a 9 inch touch screen, satelitte radio, etc.)

Its the principle of it all for me.

I have considered the GTi/Golf R (and almost bought a GTI over the summer) but the reliablity scares the S**t out of me and the infotainment in the VW feels gimicky and unrefined. I also found the Apsec's shifter to be better feeling and more fun to drive. Its the lack of power and the lack of content that I've had in cars like my Mazda CX5/Palisade that make me think twice about Hondas in general. They are all generally underequipped next to all their major competitors. The new Pilot doesnt even have the digital gauge cluster to you move all the way up to the Elite trim...they took all kinds of content out of the previous civic and civic Si that even the Integra doesnt get (rear heated seats in the USA for example and removing the adpative dampers and dual zone climate controla nd fog lights from the SI) it all just screams decontenting and cost cutting.

Hondas packaging and lack of options just drives me batty sometimes, the cost cutting is the straw that broke me.

So, whats most likely to happen for me is I'll just say F**k it and get a sporty oriented SUV (probably a CX-70 when it debuts) and just forget about a hatchback all together. If I'm gonna pay 50K for an Acura hatchback its gotta be equipt the way I'd want it...otherwise I wont be happy with it. The idea of adding an aftermarket sunroof to a 50K car also is not an option for me.

In my ideal world the Base intergra would have had the 1.5t, the ASpec Models would have gotten the 2.0t from the Accord and the Type S would have gotten the Type R's engine.

I'd have ALREADY bought an Aspec Tech if it had the 2.0t and more content. Afterall, I did own a 2019 Accord Sport 2.0t/6MT. That powertrain with the SI/Aspec Shifter, smaller weight and better amenities would have been the sweet spot for me.

There will be a huge gap (just like with the Civic) between the Aspec and the Type-S and just like with those Hondas people who want something in the middle will be left out like always.

Simiarly, I wont consider the Elantra N-Line because if you want a manual transmission you can't get a sunroof. It also happens to be ugly as sin.

At nearly 40K an Aspec doesn't make sense when I can probably get into a CX70 with an I6, 330hp, RWD/AWD and more content for about 45-50K and more space to boot.

The ONLY reason I even want the integra/civic at all is for the manual transmission...Honda makes the best ones in the business and in a few years there won't be any manuals around at all...but if its gotta be that much of a compromise I'll just go automatic and if Im gonna go automatic I'll just get an SUV.

The additional natural interior light is definitely a year round benefit with having a sunroof. I totally get it and understand why folks like them.

I can’t argue with your post. It’s extremely difficult to justify and find the value in vehicles today. In my opinion (with only a couple exceptions), I think they’re all overpriced and have far too many shortcomings. However, it’s the same with every brand. Sure, some are better than others but, they all fail. I’m just trying to get the most vehicle for the wants/needs I currently have. At this point, the Integra is appealing. It ain’t perfect but, I’m confident it’ll be a really enjoyable experience. And I too cannot purchase a VW or Audi (based on my past experiences)….even though I do like the vehicles.


Mike

 

[jd2157]

You are right about reliablity and usabiity (resale value is an unknown-especially compared to the type r since the Civics and the Civic SI seems to be holding its value better than the Integras)

I actually prefer the more seamless look of the Civic Type Rs fender flares over the renderings of the Type S though. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting a Type S at this point BUT I still can't wait to see what Honda/Acura offers with these product. It will be one of the last ICE cars we will be getting from them, which saddens me, but thats a different story for a different day.

For resale, I just mean when the time comes to sell it won’t be worthless. Makes it easier to pull the trigger knowing you won’t lose much on it.

It’s hard to argue that Honda has made some of the best engines and transmissions of our time. The K20 and 6M from the CTR/ITS are objectively some of the best they’ve ever done. They’re focused on EVs now so those cars are the last of a dying breed. I’m sure many here would like one of these cars as we transition to EVs.

My hope is I can drive an ITS for the next ten years or so while the car manufacturers get these EVs to a mature state and chargers are everywhere.

 

[Saywhaat04]

The additional natural interior light is definitely a year round benefit with having a sunroof. I totally get it and understand why folks like them.

I can’t argue with your post. It’s extremely difficult to justify and find the value in vehicles today. In my opinion (with only a couple exceptions), I think they’re all overpriced and have far too many shortcomings. However, it’s the same with every brand. Sure, some are better than others but, they all fail. I’m just trying to get the most vehicle for the wants/needs I currently have. At this point, the Integra is appealing. It ain’t perfect but, I’m confident it’ll be a really enjoyable experience. And I too cannot purchase a VW or Audi (based on my past experiences)….even though I do like the vehicles.


Mike

I definitely understand where you’re coming from. I think the Integra Type S will be a great vehicle for most folks it just appears it might just not be a great one for me. I guess I’m mostly disappointed because I’ve been here since the spy shots of the car and have been waiting all this time and I feel like I’m gonna be disappointed. Hondas used to be exceptional cars back when the competition was lackluster but so much of the competition has improved over the years so it’s a good thing for us all..still makes a little miffed that the car likely won’t fit the bill of what I’d like it to be. When everyone thought it would be a more luxurious but less powerful Type S I was on board, when that turned out not to be the case and the power ratings were announced I also got excited BUT if it’s just gonna be a CTR without real luxury content and a higher price. I will look elsewhere

 

[VtecBuddy]

When everyone thought it would be a more luxurious but less powerful Type S I was on board, when that turned out not to be the case and the power ratings were announced I also got excited BUT if it’s just gonna be a CTR without real luxury content and a higher price. I will look elsewhere

I think it's best to think of it less as a luxurious take on the CTR and more as a "streetable" take on the CTR. Softer suspension, less aggressive seats, better audio (potentially more sound deadening) will all make it better as a daily. Less aggressive aero might result in slightly better fuel economy. I think this is a product of tweaking the car to the American market rather than trying to move the CTR upmarket. Americans are probably a lot more concerned with comfy ride quality (both due to the fact our roads are worse than Japan's, and also because we're more used to doing long drives when getting places), and that's what the Type S is addressing. Us hardcore Honda enthusiasts would be willing to put up with the CTR's stiff ride, but the average person who wants a sporty car might not be.

 

[Integra23]

I definitely understand where you’re coming from. I think the Integra Type S will be a great vehicle for most folks it just appears it might just not be a great one for me. I guess I’m mostly disappointed because I’ve been here since the spy shots of the car and have been waiting all this time and I feel like I’m gonna be disappointed. Hondas used to be exceptional cars back when the competition was lackluster but so much of the competition has improved over the years so it’s a good thing for us all..still makes a little miffed that the car likely won’t fit the bill of what I’d like it to be. When everyone thought it would be a more luxurious but less powerful Type S I was on board, when that turned out not to be the case and the power ratings were announced I also got excited BUT if it’s just gonna be a CTR without real luxury content and a higher price. I will look elsewhere

I would think the luxury would be inline with the current A spec w/ Tech. Which has everything but cooled seats, folding mirrors, and 360 camera.
I'm hoping for the cooled seats but the alcantara seats aren't bad in the summer.

What else were you wanting?

 

[Rdrcr]

I definitely understand where you’re coming from. I think the Integra Type S will be a great vehicle for most folks it just appears it might just not be a great one for me. I guess I’m mostly disappointed because I’ve been here since the spy shots of the car and have been waiting all this time and I feel like I’m gonna be disappointed. Hondas used to be exceptional cars back when the competition was lackluster but so much of the competition has improved over the years so it’s a good thing for us all..still makes a little miffed that the car likely won’t fit the bill of what I’d like it to be. When everyone thought it would be a more luxurious but less powerful Type S I was on board, when that turned out not to be the case and the power ratings were announced I also got excited BUT if it’s just gonna be a CTR without real luxury content and a higher price. I will look elsewhere

I’m not sure of your budget or precise needs but, I’m telling you, the CT4-V Blackwing is mighty impressive…and it’s a flat out bargain for what you’re getting. I was able to put together my perfect example for $65K (roughly $72K OTD).

But, my better half, vetoed the purchase…because it’s more money than she wants me to spend and….RWD isn’t the best for a DD considering my fall and winter commute.

Mike

 

[VtecBuddy]

I’m not sure of your budget or precise needs but, I’m telling you, the CT4-V Blackwing is mighty impressive…and it’s a flat out bargain for what you’re getting. I was able to put together my perfect example for $65K (roughly $72K OTD).

But, my better half, vetoed the purchase…because it’s more money than she wants me to spend and….RWD isn’t the best for a DD considering my fall and winter commute.

Mike

I bet it also is much less fuel efficient and will be more expensive to insure/service than an ITS.

 

[evanescent03]

I’m not sure of your budget or precise needs but, I’m telling you, the CT4-V Blackwing is mighty impressive…and it’s a flat out bargain for what you’re getting. I was able to put together my perfect example for $65K (roughly $72K OTD).

But, my better half, vetoed the purchase…because it’s more money than she wants me to spend and….RWD isn’t the best for a DD considering my fall and winter commute.

Mike

great car. hard to find. also my wife thinks of old people when I mention a caddy. oh well. I’ve had Camaro SS 1LEs and that chassis is reallllly good. ultimately if an ITS/CTR doesn’t work out for me I’ll probably go for a G80 M3 which I’m not wild or the design and honestly think would be less fun than these “hot hatches.” RWD isn’t too bad with traction control and throttle management. Maybe some winter tires for snow. ITS/CTR will be a good value for the dollar IF it’s gotten at MSRP. $60k after markups? No for me … M3 manual.

 

[evanescent03]

I think it's best to think of it less as a luxurious take on the CTR and more as a "streetable" take on the CTR. Softer suspension, less aggressive seats, better audio (potentially more sound deadening) will all make it better as a daily. Less aggressive aero might result in slightly better fuel economy. I think this is a product of tweaking the car to the American market rather than trying to move the CTR upmarket. Americans are probably a lot more concerned with comfy ride quality (both due to the fact our roads are worse than Japan's, and also because we're more used to doing long drives when getting places), and that's what the Type S is addressing. Us hardcore Honda enthusiasts would be willing to put up with the CTR's stiff ride, but the average person who wants a sporty car might not be.

I’ve said it before, but I hope the ITS doesn’t smooth off the edgy feel of the CTR too much. That involvement and connection is what makes it great.

I want aggressive seats. Please.

Don’t need harsh ride, smooth with a touch of body roll is fine by me.

Aero is likely hard for us to notice so I’m not too worked up about it. Everyone is raving about the new Z06 with Z07 aero and how the Z07 aero is a “must”. Well, I drove the Z06 without aero and only on PS4S tires at the corvette track (NCMMSP) and it was just fine. Maybe if I drove them back to back i might notice but …. I won’t be getting too worked up about aero with these cars. MPG unlikely to change much but yeah, maybe a small change.

hoping for some good updates this week!

matt

 

[VtecBuddy]

I bet it also is much less fuel efficient and will be more expensive to insure than an ITS.

I’ve said it before, but I hope the ITS doesn’t smooth off the edgy feel of the CTR too much. That involvement and connection is what makes it great.

I want aggressive seats. Please.

Don’t need harsh ride, smooth with a touch of body roll is fine by me.

matt

From the first drive reviews it sounds like Acura turned down the steering assist, because reviewers said steering felt much heavier, so hopefully their intent was also to preserve steering feel. I doubt a change in suspension tuning would make the car feel less dynamic (unless the Integra chassis is signficantly less rigid than the Fl5's, although I assume it wouldn't be). For example, the Miata is sprung much softer than the 86, but I've never heard anyone say the Miata doesn't handle as well.

As for aggressive seats, I feel like it's unlikely the ITS gets the FL5's buckets, because adding power and heating to those seats seems like a very expensive project. And it seems unlikely Acura would drop power seat adjustment and heated seats (although they might be dropping the sunroof). The car that magazines drove back in December also didn't have more aggressive seats. Although the one sign that could point to new seats is that in the video Loni Unser posted riding along in a Type S, the seats were completely hidden under a black cloth, and that video was much later than December.

 

[Saywhaat04]

I’m not sure of your budget or precise needs but, I’m telling you, the CT4-V Blackwing is mighty impressive…and it’s a flat out bargain for what you’re getting. I was able to put together my perfect example for $65K (roughly $72K OTD).

But, my better half, vetoed the purchase…because it’s more money than she wants me to spend and….RWD isn’t the best for a DD considering my fall and winter commute.

Mike

Definitely can't afford the CT4...and im not particularly crazy about its styling...but I've dreamed of one day owning a CT5 Blackwing...I love the way they look but like the Accord, I feel its a bit too big for a manual transmission and I cannot afford it.

I would think the luxury would be inline with the current A spec w/ Tech. Which has everything but cooled seats, folding mirrors, and 360 camera.
I'm hoping for the cooled seats but the alcantara seats aren't bad in the summer.

What else were you wanting?

I mentioned what I'd want in a previous post but I'll give you a run down real quick:
Ventilated seats and a sunroof...heated steering wheel, rear a/c vents, rear usb ports, maybe heated rear seats...you know some of the stuff the previous Civics and Accords used to have. Stuff you'd expect in a car that cost 40K in ASpec Tech trim...you can get all this stuff in a VW GTI for right around 40K plus an extra 40 or so hp..but I wont touch one because of the reliability.

The Type S is gonna be a 50K car...and if its missing simple stuff like rear USB ports, rear a/c vents, 12.3 inch screen from the Accord, a sunroof, etc. it aint worth it to me. If I wanted a spartan car with all the performance I'd just get the Type R. I want an Acura, not a Civic Plus.

This Type-S, if its equipped they way many here believe it will be, is a departure from what most Type S models have been...starting from the CL/TL days in the 90s/early 2000s, the Type S models were fully loaded, had leather, sunroofs, were the top trims and had more power than the basic CL/TL, also a manual was on hand but automatics were available too.

If this is nothing more than a "streetable" Civic Type R, its just gonna end up being another Honda that basically competes with its own sibling cars. Acura/Honda act like they are the only brands that exist.

As someone who has owned a few Hondas over the years (but never an Acura) the brands just continue to frustrate me with their newest products. The Accord lost the 2.0t, is dull, doesn't really move the bar at all in the class. They decontent the shit out of the Accord...siriusxm is gone, rear ac vents and usb ports are gone (unless you get an EX-L or Touring) you cant get heated seats in Sport trim, no heated side mirrors in the Sport-L, fogs are gone, rear adjustable headrest are gone, can't get navigation at all, still no 360 camera, still no pano roof, still missing content that Hyundai, Kia, Nissan and even Toyota have been offering for a whole generation. Same with the CR-V, same with the HR-V and same with the Pilot. Nicer than previous generations but not really class leading in anyway. The Civic is legitimately a nice car and is without a doubt the best car in its class, but it doesnt have much competition these days. There are still areas where Honda cut cost to make the Integra seem better (while also not offering features in the intergra that were in the 10th gen Civics) and the TLX is just a bloated mess. MDX is meh, RDX is double meh. I'm just frustrated with the direction the whole brand is going. I feel like Honda is being complacent and lazy and they know that with this market anything they make will sell. It used to be a time when they lead the pack against everyone...but the competition as gotten a hell of a lot better these days, especially in the SUV realm and in the electrification realm too.

Its more than just the lack of a sunroof in an Integra Type S, its the whole direction and way that the car was designed, marketed and put out there. I dont mind that the Integra is a hatch, but I do hate that Honda/Acura just seemed to slap a few things together and took a legendary name like Integra and basically made a car less distinctive from the Civic than even the lowly Acura ILX was. Its the principle of it all.

I'm trying to find a way to stick with Honda/Acura...but with each option I look at there is something missing that just wont let me pull the trigger. I've been here since the spy shots of the basic Integra...I've been excited since the Integra debuted (hell I even went to radwood and saw the prototype in person at the Radwood show in Cali) but I'm 99 percent sure I'm not buying one because the car is far too compromised for what Acura is charging for it.

So like I said a few post back..if I can get the type of hatchback that I would want, I'll get something with an automatic, and that something will be an SUV...most likely a CX70 when it comes out.

Honda/Acura can make a killer product everytime and then kill it with the way they package it. Their "my way or the highway" approach used to work for me when the competition sucked...but now the competition is strong and in some ways better.

 

[Saywhaat04]

It’s pretty cold where I’m at in the PNW. When I leave the house, I’m dressed for the weather when I get into the vehicle. The only item I’m not wearing; are gloves (because I want to be able to handle my keys, phone and firearm if necessary). So, I’m pretty good aside from my hands. I rarely use my heated seats, lol. The heated steering wheel is quite a luxury for me and I really appreciate warm hands in the morning. And, even then, I only run the heated steering for the first 5-10 miles of my commute.

Mike

I work in healthcare and travel for work...for years I drove my own cars to all my assignments and my job would send me to the PNW (Ive been to Spokane and Hayden Id over a thousand times LOL) Denver, Chicago, MSP, upstate NY, etc. I drove around in a Ford Fusion SE 6MT for most of my years that didn't have a heated steering wheel. Eventually I ended up buying a Palisade Calligraphy that had one and now its a must for me. With my new position my job provides me with rentals, so I just deal with it...but in my own car...its a must now. There is nothing worse than touching a cold steering wheel where temps are 20 degrees or less. Its such an easy thing to offer in a car, yet Acura/Honda continue to nickle and dime folks because we accept it and they feel like they can.

The CR-V recently lost a comparison test in MT because of a lack of power (from the 1.5t) and its lack of content against the competition. I'm not the only one noticing Honda's cheapness.

 

[VarmintCong]

I’m not sure of your budget or precise needs but, I’m telling you, the CT4-V Blackwing is mighty impressive…and it’s a flat out bargain for what you’re getting. I was able to put together my perfect example for $65K (roughly $72K OTD).

My wife would probably veto a Caddy also. I wish the CT4 Blackwing had a normally aspirated V8, that would be so much more awesome than the turbo V6, although they gave it a nice growl.

I really don't need 668 hp or a car as big as the CT5-V Blackwing.

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