Looks like we know the base Integra engine specs

[Integra]

The 2022 Civic Si is powered by an updated high-output VTEC® 1.5-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine with usefully broader power curves than before. The engine’s peak torque of 192 lb.-ft. of torque at 1800-5000 rpm (SAE net) now arrives 300 rpm sooner for a quicker punch off the line and out of tight corners. Performance is also improved at the top of the tach where the engine maintains more output between its 200-horsepower power peak at 6000 rpm (SAE net) and its 6500 rpm redline.

6spd manual now has rev matching.

Since its safe to assume that the Si drivetrain will be the base Integra I'd say we have a nice hint at what to expect now.

EDIT: Removed Staffs edits of my posts adding content I did NOT post or link to.

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[TigerEyeJazz]

See release @ https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/2022-honda-civic-si-world-debut.50123/

The 2022 Civic Si is powered by an updated high-output VTEC® 1.5-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine with usefully broader power curves than before. The engine’s peak torque of 192 lb.-ft. of torque at 1800-5000 rpm (SAE net) now arrives 300 rpm sooner for a quicker punch off the line and out of tight corners. Performance is also improved at the top of the tach where the engine maintains more output between its 200-horsepower power peak at 6000 rpm (SAE net) and its 6500 rpm redline.

6spd manual now has rev matching.

Since its safe to assume that the Si drivetrain will be the base Integra I'd say we have a nice hint at what to expect now.

I think it’ll have the same 1.5T from Si but with 215-220 HP.

 

[RobbJK]

I can see it going either way... I could see them increasing power for the Integra (they totally should) to help with any additional weight, and the fact that the TLX base engine saw and uptick over the accord tuned 2.0T... however, those now deleted market research posts did mention 200hp... so maybe they are really going to position the integra as the affordable Si hatch (with automatic option) that people were clamoring for without any meaningful upgrade in power. Maybe the decrease to the Si was to make more room for the integra... it really could go either way... what we know so far (the market research posts) tells me it'll be copy/paste from the Si... and having a DCT will help performance slightly over a manual most likely... but I'm hoping that Acura/Honda sees fit to give us a bit more power with the price increase warranted in the Integra and to bolster Acura's performance brand claims... we shall see.

The Integra, being a 5 door hatch (assuming a coupe probably isn't coming) is going to be heavier than the Si sedan. They really need to NOT make the Integra slower than the Si IMO... but that'll require at least a 15-20hp (and torque) boost to achieve.

 

[Integra]

I can see it going either way... I could see them increasing power for the Integra (they totally should) to help with any additional weight, and the fact that the TLX base engine saw and uptick over the accord tuned 2.0T... however, those now deleted market research posts did mention 200hp... so maybe they are really going to position the integra as the affordable Si hatch (with automatic option) that people were clamoring for without any meaningful upgrade in power. Maybe the decrease to the Si was to make more room for the integra... it really could go either way... what we know so far (the market research posts) tells me it'll be copy/paste from the Si... and having a DCT will help performance slightly over a manual most likely... but I'm hoping that Acura/Honda sees fit to give us a bit more power with the price increase warranted in the Integra and to bolster Acura's performance brand claims... we shall see.

The Integra, being a 5 door hatch (assuming a coupe probably isn't coming) is going to be heavier than the Si sedan. They really need to NOT make the Integra slower than the Si IMO... but that'll require at least a 15-20hp (and torque) boost to achieve.

The power decrease for the SI is likely the same reason the Mustang lost 10Hp for 2022, its due to the new Cali CARB emissions going into effect

 

[TigerEyeJazz]

The power decrease for the SI is likely the same reason the Mustang lost 10Hp for 2022, its due to the new Cali CARB emissions going into effect

I forgot about that. That could be the case. Plus they wouldn’t make two different versions of the same engine.

 

[Integra]

I can't read that Civic thread and not laugh. So many people butthurt over 5HP, but ignoring they also improved low end TQ and extended the peak power band. Those will both help you on the track and be more noticeable in daily driving a lot more than 5 peak hp will. If Honda had NOT mentioned the 5hp no one would ever notice that for 100RPM they are making 2.5% less power.

You can totally tell who the spec sheet racer bois are.

 

[RobbJK]

I can't read that Civic thread and not laugh. So many people butthurt over 5HP, but ignoring they also improved low end TQ and extended the peak power band. Those will both help you on the track and be more noticeable in daily driving a lot more than 5 peak hp will. If Honda had NOT mentioned the 5hp no one would ever notice that for 100RPM they are making 2.5% less power.

I don't think the 5hp will make a huge difference in performance considering the other improvements they made to the car and powertrain. The new Si's biggest knock will come from added weight but actual performance numbers hopefully won't be all that different from the last gen, while having vastly improved handling characteristics and driveability. The bigger disappointment I'm seeing is that they also took features off the Si that the last gen had like heated seats, but will probably still be more expensive.

This opens up the Integra to be the Si hatch everyone was hoping for. Start with the Si formula and add a bit more power/torque, add back a few features at the entry point, plus giving it the wider stance of the CTR, more visual flare, and a few upgraded finishes inside for only maybe $2-3k more starting out plus the option of an automatic transmission and I can see a lot of would-be Si and Sport Touring shoppers that hoped for more, and can afford a bit more, going to the Integra. Each Integra sells with slightly higher profit margin, it makes sound business sense.

I personally think the feature decontenting they did on the Si is a bigger slap in the face than 5hp. But for just a few thousand more, it'll make the Integra a very attractive offering. It may unfortunately also spell demise for the Si going forward however... Honda is saying, here's a new Si with less power, less features, and only comes with a manual... but here's a slightly more powerful, more feature laden, auto optioned Integra for just a bit more in the lot across the street... and then fein shock when the Integra outsells the Si and they just nix it from future civic lineups due to low sales. In that case they'll opt instead to make the sport and sport touring trims the "sporty" civic models with the CTR being the sole performance variant.

 

[Integra]

Personally, on performance trims I like having fewer base features and having those other things as OPTIONS, but those things should definitely be an OPTION.

I have always seen the Si as the Drivers Civic. the one for people that enjoy driving but aren't really "racers" The type of people that go a few miles out of their way to find "that road" that has a few extra curves even if it means they may be at their destination 5-10min later.

Personally, I would see the price increase, while losing features, easier to swallow if the power was also being bumped to say 220-230. That said I don't know how much better the handling is updated in person. I personally am fine with 200HP if the car is a real corner carver as with how traffic is today, unlike when i was a kid, there is SO much more. It's harder to have any clear space to rev out a high RPM engine, but a car with lower end TQ can be GREAT fun on a twisty road. So, they may be going much more after the autoX guys than the Red Light Racers.

 

[RobbJK]

Personally, on performance trims I like having fewer base features and having those other things as OPTIONS, but those things should definitely be an OPTION.

I have always seen the Si as the Drivers Civic. the one for people that enjoy driving but aren't really "racers" The type of people that go a few miles out of their way to find "that road" that has a few extra curves even if it means they may be at their destination 5-10min later.

I agree whole heartedly with the Si having more of that "pure drivers car" kind of position. Trading features for more performance and affordability. But with less features, I'd also expect the starting price to be lower, which I think we can all assume won't be the case. I think if they wanted to take away some of the Si features to make it more a simple and pure driving machine they should've also focused on cutting weight, and ultimately price point. But for a year to year comparison, asking more money for less features is just kind of lame.

 

[Integra]

I agree whole heartedly with the Si having more of that "pure drivers car" kind of position. Trading features for more performance and affordability. But with less features, I'd also expect the starting price to be lower, which I think we can all assume won't be the case. I think if they wanted to take away some of the Si features to make it more a simple and pure driving machine they should've also focused on cutting weight, and ultimately price point. But for a year to year comparison, asking more money for less features is just kind of lame.

Really it would come down to how much those added handling improvements cost vs the features that were removed. With them removing heated seats and removing Adaptable handling for improved CTR based handling I'm curious where the weight came from.

I mean a Mach1 has less options than my current Bullitt and the same engine, but its handling improvements that came from the GT350 and GT500 are why it costs like 5K more. It makes the same power, is barely any faster in a line(due to better tires/gearing), but it handles MUCH better. That handling is why people are easily able to justify the price gain.

 

[geeeek]

I can't read that Civic thread and not laugh. So many people butthurt over 5HP, but ignoring they also improved low end TQ and extended the peak power band. Those will both help you on the track and be more noticeable in daily driving a lot more than 5 peak hp will. If Honda had NOT mentioned the 5hp no one would ever notice that for 100RPM they are making 2.5% less power.

You can totally tell who the spec sheet racer bois are.

Based on the dyno results of the non-Si models it may be more than 5hp loss at the wheel across the whole powerband which is why people are so disappointed. 11th gen dynos lower than the honda's numbers (which is standard) and 10th gen dynos close to honda's numbers. Apparently the reflash potential is less as well. Regardless of the car's fun factor with all the other changes, nobody wants to feel like they are downgrading power when moving to a NEW generation of their car.

 

[RobbJK]

Really it would come down to how much those added handling improvements cost vs the features that were removed. With them removing heated seats and removing Adaptable handling for improved CTR based handling I'm curious where the weight came from.

I mean a Mach1 has less options than my current Bullitt and the same engine, but its handling improvements that came from the GT350 and GT500 are why it costs like 5K more. It makes the same power, is barely any faster in a line(due to better tires/gearing), but it handles MUCH better. That handling is why people are easily able to justify the price gain.

I can definitely see that point. I'm not sure the Si saw those types of immense improvements to justify the price (could be wrong). But they took away the adjustable dampers for a decidedly more cost effective fixed setup, which I'm sure, even improved helped save some cost and weight. Again, not knowing the full cost breakdown of these tweaks and parts it's hard to say. And I know that it did gain things like the bigger touchscreen and the bose system so that's a trade off as well. It would be interesting to see the expected profit margin between the 10th and 11th gen Si. Pricing hasn't been released yet, and they did keep the touring models the same price... maybe the Si won't see a price increase, which I think would be a smart move on Honda's part.

 

[Integra]

Based on the dyno results of the non-Si models it may be more than 5hp loss at the wheel across the whole powerband which is why people are so disappointed. 11th gen dynos lower than the honda's numbers (which is standard) and 10th gen dynos close to honda's numbers. Apparently the reflash potential is less as well. Regardless of the car's fun factor with all the other changes, nobody wants to feel like they are downgrading power when moving to a NEW generation of their car.

Actually, if anything the cars used to make MORE than rated before. It looks like the 2022 numbers are actually inline with ratings. 162wheel(which is what i keep seeing, 161-163) is a little over the 180 its rated at or hondas CVT is just REALLY efficient now. Because 9-10% loss is REALLY low.

it brings up the question why was Honda really under rating the 10th gen?

 

[geeeek]

Actually, if anything the cars used to make MORE than rated before. It looks like the 2022 numbers are actually inline with ratings. 162wheel(which is what i keep seeing, 161-163) is a little over the 180 its rated at or hondas manual is just REALLY efficient now. Because 9-10% loss is REALLY low.

it brings up the question why was Honda really under rating the 10th gen?

That's exactly what I said, which brings me back to my original point. If honda says both cars are 205hp but the previous gen is known to be underrated, the actual usability will be less. And it's not like the mx5 ND1 vs ND2 where they're basically the same power until one hits redline and the other keeps going, the power loss would be across the whole range.

I'm not saying the 11th gen is a bad car or the slight power difference will make or break the car, but again. This is a NEXT GENERATION of car, the criticism is reasonable. Obviously people will buy the 11th gens as commuters no problem, and the enthusiast types will buy them and mod them anyways, or drive them stock, whatever they want to do.

 

[Integra]

That's exactly what I said, which brings me back to my original point. If honda says both cars are 205hp but the previous gen is known to be underrated, the actual usability will be less. And it's not like the mx5 ND1 vs ND2 where they're basically the same power until one hits redline and the other keeps going, the power loss would be across the whole range.

I'm not saying the 11th gen is a bad car or the slight power difference will make or break the car, but again. This is a NEXT GENERATION of car, the criticism is reasonable. Obviously people will buy the 11th gens as commuters no problem, and the enthusiast types will buy them and mod them anyways, or drive them stock, whatever they want to do.

I'm just saying you are still getting what you are paying for and should expect. Youre not getting LESS than the rating which is all you should expect.

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