Why "24 ITS" over "23 CTR"... the MSRP joke..

[koatic]

So this past month I have been in search of my next ride.. I currently have my daily 2016 TLX and my fun 93 EG with a 97 JDM ITR swap.
This choice was mostly a nostalgia thing for me as I saw numerous videos from early June launch in California at the Acura reviewers meet.
read many reviews comparing the two cars as well. The biggest thing that got me is a majority of the reviews said the ITS was nice but for the 7k difference they would take the 23 CTR. Here is where I find it amusing. as reviewers, all they have is MSRP to go on because they are not dealing directly with the dealerships.

Here is the reality for me in the southeast US.. I contacted 7 Acura dealerships and 6 honda dealerships within 500 miles of me..
After cutting through all the sales BS. I found a common theme... MOST Acura dealerships in the southeast at time of this writing have a dealer markup of 5k on top of MSRP before tax, doc fees ETC FOR THE 2024 integra Type-S ... WHILE MOST Honda dealerships in the southeast at time of this writing have a dealer markup of 10k on top of MSRP before tax, doc fees ETC FOR THE 2023 Civic Type-R..
For me in the southeast this negates all the reviewers boo's for the Type-S costing "soooo" much more.

Also what I found is the few 2024 Acura Integra Type-s that were allocated for this year to the dealerships were preorder fully loaded with 10K dealer installed accessories boosting the cost to between 61k-63k depending on dealers.. the Dealer add-ons and fees for the CTR came to 62k-64k depending on dealer..

I found one Acura dealer about 100 miles away that had one Tiger Eye Pearl allocated (not built yet) and was NOT going to automatically install all the options and charge me for them...

At this time of writing, there are only about six 2024 ITS still left without preorder deposits between all 7 dealerships I contacted.

I have put down my 2.5K deposit this past Wednesday on the pre-order for the 2024 TEP ITS at roughly 6K less that a 23 CTR..
(ironic, that is opposite of all the reviews)

below is the price to al-a-carte have the dealership install the accessories I want. Vs cost of me installing myself..
Steer Wheel - Alcantara -698.50 (actual part only self install 400)
Emblem, Gloss /Black (Front/Back A emblems)-399.20 (actual part only self install 160)
Emblems, Gloss Black (4X Type-S) 439.00 (actual part only self install 240)
Tailgate Spoiler, Carbon Fiber- 1,447.50 (actual part only self install 950 DRILLING REQUIRED)
Emblem, Front A-Mark with Illumination -847.50 (dont want)

Waiting to hear estimated delivery date..

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[s2ktaxi]

If you can be patient and wait for the hype to calm down, at least for the ITS MSRP will be more common. May take a year.

 

[optronix]

You can get a CTR for $5k over. Dealers are starting to fold. Inventory on CTRs are going up, and pressure from the ITS is going to pull buyers away. I didn't really have to try too hard to find one at $5K over, but ultimately I passed for an ITS at MSRP.

 

[Gbsn721]

So this past month I have been in search of my next ride.. I currently have my daily 2016 TLX and my fun 93 EG with a 97 JDM ITR swap.
This choice was mostly a nostalgia thing for me as I saw numerous videos from early June launch in California at the Acura reviewers meet.
read many reviews comparing the two cars as well. The biggest thing that got me is a majority of the reviews said the ITS was nice but for the 7k difference they would take the 23 CTR. Here is where I find it amusing. as reviewers, all they have is MSRP to go on because they are not dealing directly with the dealerships.

Here is the reality for me in the southeast US.. I contacted 7 Acura dealerships and 6 honda dealerships within 500 miles of me..
After cutting through all the sales BS. I found a common theme... MOST Acura dealerships in the southeast at time of this writing have a dealer markup of 5k on top of MSRP before tax, doc fees ETC FOR THE 2024 integra Type-S ... WHILE MOST Honda dealerships in the southeast at time of this writing have a dealer markup of 10k on top of MSRP before tax, doc fees ETC FOR THE 2023 Civic Type-R..
For me in the southeast this negates all the reviewers boo's for the Type-S costing "soooo" much more.

Also what I found is the few 2024 Acura Integra Type-s that were allocated for this year to the dealerships were preorder fully loaded with 10K dealer installed accessories boosting the cost to between 61k-63k depending on dealers.. the Dealer add-ons and fees for the CTR came to 62k-64k depending on dealer..

I found one Acura dealer about 100 miles away that had one Tiger Eye Pearl allocated (not built yet) and was NOT going to automatically install all the options and charge me for them...

At this time of writing, there are only about six 2024 ITS still left without preorder deposits between all 7 dealerships I contacted.

I have put down my 2.5K deposit this past Wednesday on the pre-order for the 2024 TEP ITS at roughly 6K less that a 23 CTR..
(ironic, that is opposite of all the reviews)

below is the price to al-a-carte have the dealership install the accessories I want. Vs cost of me installing myself..
Steer Wheel - Alcantara -698.50 (actual part only self install 400)
Emblem, Gloss /Black (Front/Back A emblems)-399.20 (actual part only self install 160)
Emblems, Gloss Black (4X Type-S) 439.00 (actual part only self install 240)
Tailgate Spoiler, Carbon Fiber- 1,447.50 (actual part only self install 950 DRILLING REQUIRED)
Emblem, Front A-Mark with Illumination -847.50 (dont want)

Waiting to hear estimated delivery date..

Try Acura of Lafayette, I just went and picked up my car over the weekend and they were awesome to deal with, I know they told me they had a black one that had just come in.

I bought the demo car, so obviously it was White/Red with all the “launch edition” dealer installed accessories, but they sold the car to me at 2k under MSRP ($50,595) and the accessories at under MSRP ($5,689) as well, with no kind of up charge for installation, and included all the stock parts. Their doc fees were reasonable at $425, and then I paid $260.50 in “Government Fees”.

I worked with Michael Lacour and couldn’t of had a better experience.

Item	MSRP
Bronze Wheels	$2186
Valve Stem Caps	$29
Illuminated Front Emblem	$350
Gloss Black Rear Emblem	$80
Gloss Black Type S Badges	$240
Carbon Fiber Spoiler	$950
Carbon Fiber Mirror Covers	$600
Black Wheel Locks	$93
Premium Carpet Floor Mats	$240
Shift Knob	$200
Alcantara Steering Wheel	$400
Illuminated Door Sills	$460
Total	$5828

Now would I have bought half of this stuff? No probably not. The bronze wheels for sure, or I would have at least gotten my stock ones re painted. I’d also say the carbon spoiler is a must, the stock one is a little subdue for my taste. But I really don’t dislike any of it, tho the ”Premium” Carpet mats are pretty much a waste, as I’ve already got Tuxmats coming. Also, on the drive home I noticed that the carbon fiber covers on the mirrors just didn’t look right, and have since discovered that they are installed incorrectly, I’m hoping that the dealer will work with me on that and I can get them sorted at my local dealer at no cost to me, I am not driving 7 hours back to Lafayette to get ‘em fixed lol. But no way I’d spend $600 on these, I think Synth Carbon has actual CF replacement mirror caps for like $150 and they might actually save weight instead of adding it lol.

As far as CTR prices, I was seeing the same thing. I traded in my ’18 CTR to get the ITS, and so far I’m really enjoying having a car that is better suited to being a daily driver, tho I’m only a few days in at this point.

For me as someone in their mid 30’s I’d choose the ITS every time. But if you asked me a week ago I would of told you I was going to do a new Type R. Thats what I started out looking for, and just lucked into the ITS and really feel like I ended up buying the perfect car.

There are a few things most of those review don’t mention when pointing out the price difference between the CTR and the ITS. I didn’t discover these until I was on the cusp of buying the car.

1. The Acura comes with a better warranty than the Civic. It may not actually be worth much, I never had to use the warranty for my CTR, but it is additional value and peace of mind that is included with that higher MSRP.

2. All you maintenance is on Acura for the first 2 years.

3. Sunglasses Holder.

My 2 cents is don’t get in a hurry, you will eventually find a dealer that will work with you.

 

[koatic]

@Gbsn721
glad to hear someone else with a CTR changed over to an ITS. Congrats on your find!!
The accessories list I put was what the dealer was going to charge for install. I can get them at same price as your list from my local Acura not the one I am getting the Car.. I am not doing the mirror caps but I did hear they add +5HP (JK)..
Already put the non-refundable 2.5k deposit down on the order to get it so will ride it out with this dealer. Really want the TEP and this was the last one within 500 miles.. (southeast coast)..
Note: two dealerships still had 2 allocated but didn't directly order so they are not sure what color they will be until they get the final allocation list.

 

[RUNN1N]

I found one Acura dealer about 100 miles away that had one Tiger Eye Pearl allocated (not built yet) and was NOT going to automatically install all the options and charge me for them...

I'm not at all surprised you managed to find an ITS at MSRP without accessories for less than a CTR with the standard markup--I find it really interesting that reviewers still tend to measure cars and their values based on MSRP, even on models that are so clearly impossible to find at MSRP. They did the same thing when the '23 Integra launched, "The Integra is overpriced. Why not just get a Civic Si for $7,000 less?" when, in reality, most Si's at the time had a markup of around $5k-$10k. These guys know the markups are reality... they just choose not to touch it.

Jack with SavageGeese put it right out there in their first CTR review, saying he was able to get a CTR at MSRP from a dealership that'd be marking up the rest of their inventory, but that the CTR wasn't worth more than MSRP... yet nearly a year later, good luck finding one for less than $10k over MSRP.

 

[optronix]

I'm not at all surprised you managed to find an ITS at MSRP without accessories for less than a CTR with the standard markup--I find it really interesting that reviewers still tend to measure cars and their values based on MSRP, even on models that are so clearly impossible to find at MSRP. They did the same thing when the '23 Integra launched, "The Integra is overpriced. Why not just get a Civic Si for $7,000 less?" when, in reality, most Si's at the time had a markup of around $5k-$10k. These guys know the markups are reality... they just choose not to touch it.

Jack with SavageGeese put it right out there in their first CTR review, saying he was able to get a CTR at MSRP from a dealership that'd be marking up the rest of their inventory, but that the CTR wasn't worth more than MSRP... yet nearly a year later, good luck finding one for less than $10k over MSRP.

Mark is the one with the CTR. I probably am becoming a Savagegeese superfan.

You're absolutely spot on about the MSRP vs markup discussions. There are some folks who get the CTR at MSRP, but I'd say it's probably less than 10% of all buyers of the car. Seriously, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that 90% of all FL5 owners paid over MSRP for their cars. And of those people, they probably paid an average of $10-15k over. So definitely plenty of $60k Civics out there, at least based on what people actually paid for them.

And it's not just me saying it, there's real world data.

https://www.motoringobsession.com/stock/civic-type-r

*FWIW, this rolling median markup value has been continuously diminishing, it was $15k when I started using this tool a couple months ago when there was far less inventory.

So all that being said, it's not a fair assessment to say the ITS is $7k more than the CTR. In the light of day and reality of the market, it's not. I think that had at least a little bit to do with Acura corporate's pricing discussion. The CTR had been out for most of a year and they got to see what people were paying for them. I'm sure it influenced their calculus. And sure it sent this forum and YouTube comment sections into a frenzy, but I still think it's priced appropriately for the world we're living in. And maybe if you skip on some of the pricier accessories, a mild markup isn't the end of the world either. I think these cars are a great value for under $60k. Any more than that and you get diminishing returns IMHO, but it's your money.

So yeah, it irks me too when reviewers say things like "for $7k less I'd take the Civic"- sure, buddy- and so would I! But tell me how that works out for you.

Also, the extra 2 years maintenance and year of warranty over the Civic have a substantial value as well. And I would 1000% rather take my car into an Acura dealer than a Honda dealer to perform said maintenance and/or repairs.

edit- honestly after owning it now for a week you couldn't pry this thing away from me with a Civic at $5k below MSRP. There's probably some psychosis involved because at one point a few days prior to my purchase I honestly thought I'd be happy with either car, but the Civic looks boring to me now. I vastly prefer the aesthetic and sound of the ITS. It's not even close for me anymore.

 

[NoelPR]

As the OP I was set on getting a CTR but the reality around me and nearby states is that the ITS is a no-brainer at MSRP. I also had the wife, unwilling to pay over 45K for a vehicle with non-leather seats.

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