Trading Up? Lateral Move? Trading Down? ITS for CTR

[B-RapidK20]

After checking out the FL5 in person and doing a deep dive on the numbers, I've come to the conclusion that I'm potentially having a midlife crisis... that, or I'm just letting car lust and potential FOMO crowd out my objectivity. In any case, I thought I'd share where I am.

• Win/Win - First and foremost, I truly don't think you can go wrong with either of these cars (at MSRP)--they both look phenomenal and have gotten essentially unanimous praise across the board, both for looks and performance. This has honestly made this a very tough decision.
• Cost/Quality - Granted, neither car is cheap, but both bring a lot to the table for the price and look/feel/perform appropriately. Sure, there are cheaper/faster/more luxurious options out there at both ends of the price range, but the ITS and CTR should both be capable of lasting forever and shouldn't cost too much to properly maintain.
• Seating - The CTR buckets are obviously not for everyone... but they feel phenomenal. Are they necessary for daily use? Or are my ITS seats uncomfortable in comparison? Nope. Do I want the CTR seats anyway? Absolutely. They're fun.
• Gauges - Go straight from the ITS gauge cluster to the CTR in +R mode and tell me you don't go, "Oh, c'mon, I want mine to look just like that!" It's the same hardware, but the ITS doesn't "need" it and I don't "need" it either for driving my kid to/from school. I get it... but I'd trade my HUD for those gauges in a heartbeat. Like the seats, the gauges are fun.
• Stereo - The ITS ELS and the CTR Bose audio is essentially indistinguishable. Maybe it was SavageGeese that compared the two scientifically, but I don't notice a difference.
• Fit/Finish - I do believe I got a "good" ITS. It's Black/Black, has matching paint, and no panel gap issues (none that fall outside my margin for error, at least). I've got a couple noises in the cabin--a buzz somewhere near the HUD, and a rattle somewhere on the passenger side. Neither is annoying enough for me to take the car in for exploratory surgery and risk coming back with something worse, but they're there. My A-Spec + Tech didn't have any sounds (yet, at least). I don't have any miles on the CTR, but I'm more confident in Japan than Marysville.
• Colors - White/Black was my ideal combo (still non-existent, I think) with White/Red as a close second, but the three White/Red I saw in person (one I personally passed on buying at MSRP with no accessories) had paint-matching issues between plastic and metal. This didn't give me much hope for a White ITS. Black/Black was my next favorite... but it is an absolute nuisance to keep looking clean (I was warned), and I swear I can swirl the clearcoat just looking at it. I've got all of the goods to do a paint correction and ceramic coating and had just been waiting for the time/weather needed, and I'm confident I could wrap it I wanted a different color... but that Championship White looks GOOD, is my favorite CTR color, and has already been fully prepped for ceramic.
• Sounds - Yes, the ITS has the winning exhaust of the two cars, it's not even a contest... but even better aftermarket options will follow for both cars. I'm somewhat indifferent about exhaust sounds. I don't think I care much about the NVH difference either, but TBD.
• Looks - These cars are two sides of an equally delightful coin when it comes to looks. I've admitted it before, I love the wing on the CTR. It's big, and it's immature. I think I like it specifically for those reasons. Neither car looks overly grown-up.
• Aftermarket/Beyond - Drivetrain parts will be interchangeable, but I think more bespoke CTR upgrades will be available overall. Partly because it's sold globally, but there's also more CTR "stuff" overall. Who doesn't want a Hot Wheels version of their car?
• Value/Enjoyment - I'd love to know which of these cars will hold value better over time, or which I'd enjoy more... but I figure it's about equal. I'm not trying to dwell too much on the value proposition, as they're both depreciating assets after all.

So how much will 540 miles on my ITS "cost" me if I switch? It's not rude to wonder, I'd be wondering too.

• I've been tracking the value of my A-Spec + Tech closely since I traded it in June (because that's a completely reasonable hobby) and it's lost approximately $3,000 in value--my apologies for everyone waiting on reservation allocations, brutal month for trade-in values.
• My trade-in offer was $2,300 less than I paid for my ITS with accessories (not counting taxes, since the trade-in value on new purchases in Ohio offsets the taxable amount, so there's essentially no tax owed on the CTR), but that's still slightly more than the cost of the CTR at MSRP with $2,000 in paint correction and PPF from the A-pillar forward.
• Had I waited for a different ITS color and had this CTR opportunity come up now, I might've saved ~$4,165 having not bought the ITS (calling that an "impulse penalty")... but I have to admit, I was calling dealerships all the way up to my ITS purchase trying to negotiate a CTR for ADM $5,000 or less with zero luck.

I'm still not quite decided on which I'll go with, but that's at least my rationale.

Definitely a win win for you. I was at the same crossroads last Friday and decided to wait for the ITS. My scenario a little different the car was black (my 2nd choice) with $5k adm. I went through all the same exact thoughts when comparing the two. The Type R will definitely hold more value over time because it’s the real JDM. Good luck making your decision I know it is not easy. May I have your CTR allocation if you pass?

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[RUNN1N]

After fighting hard to get an A-Spec + Tech around launch day, and then the ITS on the actual launch day, it feels weird to say it... but I'm going CTR. I'm an admitted Honda/Acura loyalist, and this was especially tough because seemingly in every category where one car hits a home run, the other hits a double/triple, and it bounces back and forth for each and every one. It's simultaneously amazing and frustrating.

I got the A-Spec + Tech because I wanted the fun/pep of a Civic Si but with a hatch that felt a little nicer until the FK8 was redesigned. Bingo. I always planned to trade up a CTR or ITS, but availability became a major factor and I wasn't going to pay $10k+ over MSRP. For my needs and expectations, the ITS and CTR are effectively the same--mechanically capable, and pleasantly overstyled each in their own special ways. Admittedly, part of the decision was color-based (I love both cars with plenty of contrast, and I personally underestimated the maintenance of black), and part of it is the childlike glee I get from some of the CTR's more overdone parts. Daycare duty doesn't require (freakin' comfortable) loud bucket seats, or a big 'ol wing... but 16-year-old me just couldn't have either in his '94 Del Sol. That kid's making some of this decision.

Hopefully, they'll both become as sought-after as some of the other Honda/Acura enthusiast models. Hopefully, Peloton will keep me trim enough to enjoy bucket seats. TBD.

 

[suzysparks]

After fighting hard to get an A-Spec + Tech around launch day, and then the ITS on the actual launch day, it feels weird to say it... but I'm going CTR. I'm an admitted Honda/Acura loyalist, and this was especially tough because seemingly in every category where one car hits a home run, the other hits a double/triple, and it bounces back and forth for each and every one. It's simultaneously amazing and frustrating.

I got the A-Spec + Tech because I wanted the fun/pep of a Civic Si but with a hatch that felt a little nicer until the FK8 was redesigned. Bingo. I always planned to trade up a CTR or ITS, but availability became a major factor and I wasn't going to pay $10k+ over MSRP. For my needs and expectations, the ITS and CTR are effectively the same--mechanically capable, and pleasantly overstyled each in their own special ways. Admittedly, part of the decision was color-based (I love both cars with plenty of contrast, and I personally underestimated the maintenance of black), and part of it is the childlike glee I get from some of the CTR's more overdone parts. Daycare duty doesn't require (freakin' comfortable) loud bucket seats, or a big 'ol wing... but 16-year-old me just couldn't have either in his '94 Del Sol. That kid's making some of this decision.

Hopefully, they'll both become as sought-after as some of the other Honda/Acura enthusiast models. Hopefully, Peloton will keep me trim enough to enjoy bucket seats. TBD.

Mid-life crisis me is going what the hell was I thinking with having to get in and out of the ITS. But damn, once in, I got that silly ass grin on my face that I’ve missed. My MDX Type S has been my happy place. I have a new happy place. But I might need to use those massaging seats in the MDX every so often.

 

[RUNN1N]

Mid-life crisis me is going what the hell was I thinking with having to get in and out of the ITS. But damn, once in, I got that silly ass grin on my face that I’ve missed.

Oh this is no doubt a midlife crisis. Fortunately, my wife and I find humor in it for now. If it gets more costly or absurd, I'm in trouble.

 

[Integra23]

Mid-life crisis me is going what the hell was I thinking with having to get in and out of the ITS. But damn, once in, I got that silly ass grin on my face that I’ve missed. My MDX Type S has been my happy place. I have a new happy place. But I might need to use those massaging seats in the MDX every so often.

Lol. I feel ya.
Now with the Down pipe, front pipe, and sprint filter this thing is mean sounding with turbo noises and exhaust that's amazing.

 

[suzysparks]

Oh this is no doubt a midlife crisis. Fortunately, my wife and I find humor in it for now. If it gets more costly or absurd, I'm in trouble.

My husband is the most laid back guy. By now he knows I’m going to do what I want; no use in arguing. I’m the ‘car’ person in the family. He inherits the MDX as he has absolutely no interest in the ITS. Our daughter has a Bronco Sport and she just says don’t touch hers and she’s fine. So everyone agrees I’m crazy. Yeah, okay, whatever. Let me enjoy the car.

 

[RUNN1N]

Lol. I feel ya.
Now with the Down pipe, front pipe, and sprint filter this thing is mean sounding with turbo noises and exhaust that's amazing.

I'll admit that I spent a fair amount of time considering how I might be able to covertly swap the full exhaust from the ITS onto the CTR, but my gut tells me there's some really terrible karma that would follow given how nice the guys at the Honda dealership have been... also, pretty sure it'd throw some kind of error light(s) in the ITS. I'll let you decide which is holding me back.

 

[Integra23]

I'll admit that I spent a fair amount of time considering how I might be able to covertly swap the full exhaust from the ITS onto the CTR, but my gut tells me there's some really terrible karma that would follow given how nice the guys at the Honda dealership have been... also, pretty sure it'd throw some kind of error light(s) in the ITS. I'll let you decide which is holding me back.

With the DP check engine light is an issue. I have reset it twice so far. I haven't had a chance to play with the defouler, read somewhere removing it may work.

 

[Clark_Kent]

After fighting hard to get an A-Spec + Tech around launch day, and then the ITS on the actual launch day, it feels weird to say it... but I'm going CTR. I'm an admitted Honda/Acura loyalist, and this was especially tough because seemingly in every category where one car hits a home run, the other hits a double/triple, and it bounces back and forth for each and every one. It's simultaneously amazing and frustrating.

I got the A-Spec + Tech because I wanted the fun/pep of a Civic Si but with a hatch that felt a little nicer until the FK8 was redesigned. Bingo. I always planned to trade up a CTR or ITS, but availability became a major factor and I wasn't going to pay $10k+ over MSRP. For my needs and expectations, the ITS and CTR are effectively the same--mechanically capable, and pleasantly overstyled each in their own special ways. Admittedly, part of the decision was color-based (I love both cars with plenty of contrast, and I personally underestimated the maintenance of black), and part of it is the childlike glee I get from some of the CTR's more overdone parts. Daycare duty doesn't require (freakin' comfortable) loud bucket seats, or a big 'ol wing... but 16-year-old me just couldn't have either in his '94 Del Sol. That kid's making some of this decision.

Hopefully, they'll both become as sought-after as some of the other Honda/Acura enthusiast models. Hopefully, Peloton will keep me trim enough to enjoy bucket seats. TBD.

The heart wants what the heart wants. It appears you thought about this one deeply and all roads come back to the CTR. So, when do you take the CTR home? Also, is your dealership Honda Marysville by any chance?

 

[ABPDE5]

With the DP check engine light is an issue. I have reset it twice so far. I haven't had a chance to play with the defouler, read somewhere removing it may work.

I'm on the fence about ordering the TSP catted DP... worried I'll still run into this eventually

 

[optronix]

After fighting hard to get an A-Spec + Tech around launch day, and then the ITS on the actual launch day, it feels weird to say it... but I'm going CTR. I'm an admitted Honda/Acura loyalist, and this was especially tough because seemingly in every category where one car hits a home run, the other hits a double/triple, and it bounces back and forth for each and every one. It's simultaneously amazing and frustrating.

I got the A-Spec + Tech because I wanted the fun/pep of a Civic Si but with a hatch that felt a little nicer until the FK8 was redesigned. Bingo. I always planned to trade up a CTR or ITS, but availability became a major factor and I wasn't going to pay $10k+ over MSRP. For my needs and expectations, the ITS and CTR are effectively the same--mechanically capable, and pleasantly overstyled each in their own special ways. Admittedly, part of the decision was color-based (I love both cars with plenty of contrast, and I personally underestimated the maintenance of black), and part of it is the childlike glee I get from some of the CTR's more overdone parts. Daycare duty doesn't require (freakin' comfortable) loud bucket seats, or a big 'ol wing... but 16-year-old me just couldn't have either in his '94 Del Sol. That kid's making some of this decision.

Hopefully, they'll both become as sought-after as some of the other Honda/Acura enthusiast models. Hopefully, Peloton will keep me trim enough to enjoy bucket seats. TBD.

I'm definitely chilling in my glass house saying this, because my car history in the past couple years is SUPER embarrassing...

But this is EXACTLY why I wanted no part in that roulette game of "pre-ordering", with people jumping over each other to get a car in a color combo they didn't want, just to HAVE IT FIRST!

I thought about it for exactly half a second, and I would have went black on black too because I wanted black interior and did NOT want Tiger Eye. But I've owned enough black cars already, didn't want to pay $6k+ for another Stealth PPF job, and really like the black contrast enough for me to move away from the keyboard. Plus I knew it would just be a shit show anyway.

A $4k+ mistake, but it seems at least you're getting what you actually want now. Maybe.

 

[RUNN1N]

Also, is your dealership Honda Marysville by any chance?

Hah! I'm with Roush, but I made many attempts to connect with Honda Marysville about the CTR as they're also an MSRP-only dealership. Interestingly, they "don't pre-sell CTR's" and they "don't take reservations" yet every single one of their CTR allocations has been pre-sold before arrival. The salespeople won't say how that's possible (it's actually funny to listen to them try to respond when prodded about it), and management won't return calls to discuss it (I don't blame them). Coincidentally, the luxury dealership next door (Performance Motorsports) seems to have a steady stream of Honda Marysville CTR's with under 500 miles at ~$12k over MSRP. You draw your own conclusions. Roush has been fantastic.

But this is EXACTLY why I wanted no part in that roulette game of "pre-ordering", with people jumping over each other to get a car in a color combo they didn't want, just to HAVE IT FIRST!

I thought about it for exactly half a second, and I would have went black on black too because I wanted black interior and did NOT want Tiger Eye. But I've owned enough black cars already, didn't want to pay $6k+ for another Stealth PPF job, and really like the black contrast enough for me to move away from the keyboard. Plus I knew it would just be a shit show anyway.

I honestly don't regret buying the Type-S, pre-ordering the Black/Black, or electing to buy it. Besides, the CTR called me, not the other way around. I was high on enough lists that I was comfortable that other buying opportunities would soon follow if I didn't like it in person, but I wanted something different (interior and exterior) from my White/Red A-Spec + Tech, and was a fan of black cars before the A-Spec + Tech... but I was younger and frankly indifferent about dirt, grime, water spots, dust, and everything else that pops on black. Turns out, everyone who says black is difficult to keep clean is right, but it's hard to experience that on a dealer lot, ya know?

My $4k loss includes $2k in similar PPF I had scheduled for the ITS and a handful of accessories I requested, so while it pretty much universally sucks to lose money... the loss is less than I was willing to pay in straight ADM pre-ITS, and I think I'd regret not giving it a try. I can always switch back--my wife even said so!

 

[Clark_Kent]

Hah! I'm with Roush, but I made many attempts to connect with Honda Marysville about the CTR as they're also an MSRP-only dealership. Interestingly, they "don't pre-sell CTR's" and they "don't take reservations" yet every single one of their CTR allocations has been pre-sold before arrival. The salespeople won't say how that's possible (it's actually funny to listen to them try to respond when prodded about it), and management won't return calls to discuss it (I don't blame them). Coincidentally, the luxury dealership next door (Performance Motorsports) seems to have a steady stream of Honda Marysville CTR's with under 500 miles at ~$12k over MSRP. You draw your own conclusions. Roush has been fantastic.



I honestly don't regret buying the Type-S, pre-ordering the Black/Black, or electing to buy it. Besides, the CTR called me, not the other way around. I was high on enough lists that I was comfortable that other buying opportunities would soon follow if I didn't like it in person, but I wanted something different (interior and exterior) from my White/Red A-Spec + Tech, and was a fan of black cars before the A-Spec + Tech... but I was younger and frankly indifferent about dirt, grime, water spots, dust, and everything else that pops on black. Turns out, everyone who says black is difficult to keep clean is right, but it's hard to experience that on a dealer lot, ya know?

My $4k loss includes $2k in similar PPF I had scheduled for the ITS and a handful of accessories I requested, so while it pretty much universally sucks to lose money... the loss is less than I was willing to pay in straight ADM pre-ITS, and I think I'd regret not giving it a try. I can always switch back--my wife even said so!

I forgot about Rousch, they're on my list as well. Not surprised Honda Marysville gave you the run around. I've spoken to them on a couple of occasions and a lot of what they were saying about availability didn't make a lot of sense to me. I was able to surmise their FL5s were only for "certain people". They also do not sell out of state, or that's what they told me anyway.

 

[RUNN1N]

I forgot about Rousch, they're on my list as well. Not surprised Honda Marysville gave you the run around. I've spoken to them on a couple of occasions and a lot of what they were saying about availability didn't make a lot of sense to me. I was able to surmise their FL5s were only for "certain people". They also do not sell out of state, or that's what they told me anyway.

You're 100% correct--their FL5's are for "certain people", and those people seem to enjoy flipping them. It never even crossed my mind whether they sold to people out of state.

I ordered a '22 Civic Si from them, and they were very nice throughout that process, but they were actually weird about CTR allocations/reservations in December 2021. At that point, there were just spy shots of the car and no info on a potential release date, but rather than let me start a list, they just insisted there'd probably be no list. It just sounded like you'd have to be waiting on the lot when a car rolled off the truck.

 

[RUNN1N]

I just wanted to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts and let you all know I traded the ITS for the FL5.

After a little more negotiating, my total hit ended up being $2,900, and I even learned I can recoup the difference in sales tax from the state + interest (very nice surprise, Ohio!). Given the similarities between the cars, it was a very tough decision, but I ultimately felt I'd have an easier time getting ahold of another ITS at MSRP if I'd ever want to switch back and that I was unlikely to come across another new FL5 at MSRP in my ideal color.

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