Back on Track

[Victorofhavoc]

Yeah that sounds familiar, @s219 .

It's a great car on track, really. There's a coming event at a new racetrack in my area (hedge hollow raceway) and I plan to take it out with NASA to our first event this year. I'll drive it in advanced de since there's no TT that weekend and will likely either lead one of the lower groups as an instructor or drive with a student in my car. My expectation is that everyone will gawk at first, then ask question, then realize it's a fwd civic and lower their expectations, followed very quickly by shock as I pass the mustangs, c7/6/5 vettes, and a bunch of other things. Really.

That said, after a whole day of literally running around (I do 25k steps on a typical day at an event) and spending all day at speed with the noise, wind, mental focus, instruction, and hydration/dehydration, the drive back would be brutal. A 2hr drive after a private day before left me really worn out. It was totally the opposite in my gti, I'd get home feeling tired but not mentally overstimulated. I'm hoping all the vibration dampening and sound deadening will help. So far with just the hatch area deadened, I no longer need to have the music at volume 6 @ 50mph and 8 @ 75mph just to hear it. It's now 4 and 5, which speaks volumes for my kids' long term hearing (dad puns ).

You're right, it's not the tires. The ps4s were SILENT on my old gti and are even more silent than the oem all seasons on my wife's q7. The ps4s road noise is in the upper pitch thrum, and that gets canceled very well by the basic deadening the audi and vw cars do. I CANNOT imagine what it's like to drive this car on a truly loud tire on the street, like an re71rs or some other 200tw with shoulder blocks the size of dollar bills. I would bet it's pretty brutal and would give a migraine after 40mins+ of driving.

I also have a background in engineering fields and analytical research, so like you that's probably part of why I'm so attentive to certain details. I can't not "look to closely." Looking closely at other cars I certainly don't see the same quality issues, and I know for a fact if I brought a qc issue to a bmw, audi, subaru, Porsche, or vw dealer in my area (like my find of multiple broken clips), they would do these things that neither the acura dealer nor acura/Honda has done for me:
1. Apologize
2. Give me free clips and offer to check the panels I've touched
3. Contact the maker/factory for follow up and keep me updated
4. Hand me swag left and right (I don't care about this, but it's a nice "step up" to get a nice little audi bag for small things that reminds me the dealer TRIED)

The grotesque brake fluid i found alone should have sent them on a mission to apologize for downright dangerous condition and offer to double check the entire assembly and rebleed my brakes even after I've done it.

... then again this was my first new car since covid, so maybe everyone has just gone to crap and it's time to start buying mid 2010s cars...

I've also slightly changed my opinion about acura. I used to see them as a luxury brand, but now I see them as just American Honda. They're a Ford or Hyundai equivalent to me; not as low as a dodge, but nowhere near as nice as a vw or mazda. Part of this I honestly think is a result of acura buyers just being older Honda buyers. I've started to believe the "Honda driver" stereotype is warranted, and that the dealers just expect everyone buying honda/acura are just looking for an appliance they don't want to spend money to maintain, thereby treating even their "enthusiast" vehicles as standard econoboxes. Case in point, my friend's neighbor drives an accord sport and believes that oil changes, tire rotations, and brake/trans flush are all scams. He waits until tires are bald to replace them, adds oil only when it dings it's low, and has 5 years of zero brake service. I don't even want to ask if he's ever changed any of his filters, but I suspect that's a "scam" too. This is also why I fear used Hondas and toyotas.

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[ABPDE5]

Yeah that sounds familiar, @s219 .

It's a great car on track, really. There's a coming event at a new racetrack in my area (hedge hollow raceway) and I plan to take it out with NASA to our first event this year. I'll drive it in advanced de since there's no TT that weekend and will likely either lead one of the lower groups as an instructor or drive with a student in my car. My expectation is that everyone will gawk at first, then ask question, then realize it's a fwd civic and lower their expectations, followed very quickly by shock as I pass the mustangs, c7/6/5 vettes, and a bunch of other things. Really.

That said, after a whole day of literally running around (I do 25k steps on a typical day at an event) and spending all day at speed with the noise, wind, mental focus, instruction, and hydration/dehydration, the drive back would be brutal. A 2hr drive after a private day before left me really worn out. It was totally the opposite in my gti, I'd get home feeling tired but not mentally overstimulated. I'm hoping all the vibration dampening and sound deadening will help. So far with just the hatch area deadened, I no longer need to have the music at volume 6 @ 50mph and 8 @ 75mph just to hear it. It's now 4 and 5, which speaks volumes for my kids' long term hearing (dad puns ).

You're right, it's not the tires. The ps4s were SILENT on my old gti and are even more silent than the oem all seasons on my wife's q7. The ps4s road noise is in the upper pitch thrum, and that gets canceled very well by the basic deadening the audi and vw cars do. I CANNOT imagine what it's like to drive this car on a truly loud tire on the street, like an re71rs or some other 200tw with shoulder blocks the size of dollar bills. I would bet it's pretty brutal and would give a migraine after 40mins+ of driving.

I also have a background in engineering fields and analytical research, so like you that's probably part of why I'm so attentive to certain details. I can't not "look to closely." Looking closely at other cars I certainly don't see the same quality issues, and I know for a fact if I brought a qc issue to a bmw, audi, subaru, Porsche, or vw dealer in my area (like my find of multiple broken clips), they would do these things that neither the acura dealer nor acura/Honda has done for me:
1. Apologize
2. Give me free clips and offer to check the panels I've touched
3. Contact the maker/factory for follow up and keep me updated
4. Hand me swag left and right (I don't care about this, but it's a nice "step up" to get a nice little audi bag for small things that reminds me the dealer TRIED)

The grotesque brake fluid i found alone should have sent them on a mission to apologize for downright dangerous condition and offer to double check the entire assembly and rebleed my brakes even after I've done it.

... then again this was my first new car since covid, so maybe everyone has just gone to crap and it's time to start buying mid 2010s cars...

I've also slightly changed my opinion about acura. I used to see them as a luxury brand, but now I see them as just American Honda. They're a Ford or Hyundai equivalent to me; not as low as a dodge, but nowhere near as nice as a vw or mazda. Part of this I honestly think is a result of acura buyers just being older Honda buyers. I've started to believe the "Honda driver" stereotype is warranted, and that the dealers just expect everyone buying honda/acura are just looking for an appliance they don't want to spend money to maintain, thereby treating even their "enthusiast" vehicles as standard econoboxes. Case in point, my friend's neighbor drives an accord sport and believes that oil changes, tire rotations, and brake/trans flush are all scams. He waits until tires are bald to replace them, adds oil only when it dings it's low, and has 5 years of zero brake service. I don't even want to ask if he's ever changed any of his filters, but I suspect that's a "scam" too. This is also why I fear used Hondas and toyotas.

re: Acura being American Honda...
This is really an interesting dynamic. For a while, Honda treated Acura like the "red-headed step child". There's a lot of evidence that Honda went out of their way to ensure Acura didn't outshine the main brand. For example, while the RSX Type-S was a very cool car (mostly because it came with a cable-throttle K20 and an aggressive tune), it was built on an older platform than the contemporary Civic, and later the ILX was, too.

If you watch the Savage Geese video on the ITS, Johnathon Rivers (?) essentially makes clear that the ITS was a "passion project" driven by Acura engineers and that they had to fight to make it happen.

It's honestly the only "interesting" car that Acura has made aside from the NSX since the RSX in the early 2000s. If it wasn't for the SUV boom, and the thirst for a "nicer" / "grown-up" Honda SUV, this company would be dead.

I think, in this way, the ITS is actually very special. While it is 95% a re-badged Civic Type-R, it's also pretty clear that a small group of passionate engineers had to fight tooth and nail to build this car, and I would assume -- based on the way both Honda and Acura are trending (i.e. gone are the days of the S2k, the NSX, frenetic engines in otherwise economy cars, etc.) -- there will not be another offering like this from either company.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

re: Acura being American Honda...
This is really an interesting dynamic. For a while, Honda treated Acura like the "red-headed step child". There's a lot of evidence that Honda went out of their way to ensure Acura didn't outshine the main brand. For example, while the RSX Type-S was a very cool car (mostly because it came with a cable-throttle K20 and an aggressive tune), it was built on an older platform than the contemporary Civic, and later the ILX was, too.

If you watch the Savage Geese video on the ITS, Johnathon Rivers (?) essentially makes clear that the ITS was a "passion project" driven by Acura engineers and that they had to fight to make it happen.

It's honestly the only "interesting" car that Acura has made aside from the NSX since the RSX in the early 2000s. If it wasn't for the SUV boom, and the thirst for a "nicer" / "grown-up" Honda SUV, this company would be dead.

I think, in this way, the ITS is actually very special. While it is 95% a re-badged Civic Type-R, it's also pretty clear that a small group of passionate engineers had to fight tooth and nail to build this car, and I would assume -- based on the way both Honda and Acura are trending (i.e. gone are the days of the S2k, the NSX, frenetic engines in otherwise economy cars, etc.) -- there will not be another offering like this from either company.

That's a very logical background, and I appreciate it.

Honestly, the recent nsx never did it for me. It seems fine, but the waitlists were a pain if you could even get on one, and given how terrible the rest of the acura lineup was there was little incentive to even step into a dealership. When I finally drove the recent nsx, it was a far step away from the old one, and not in a good way. It's a pretty car, but driving it was like playing a video game and I never truly gelled with it. Just like the c8 vette and the audi R8. Technically good cars, but just not fun. They're so lifeless, especially at low speeds.

I did like the mid 2000s tl type s. I think that was the best looking car honda/acura ever produced. Better than the its. I still rubber neck when I see one... Or an s2k.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

We're not the only ones with build issues. The recent Toyota trucks have been trash, and their bumpers are worse paint qc than anything in our cars...

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/toy...sues-and-asks-when-was-last-year-toyota-built

 

[ABPDE5]

That's a very logical background, and I appreciate it.

Honestly, the recent nsx never did it for me. It seems fine, but the waitlists were a pain if you could even get on one, and given how terrible the rest of the acura lineup was there was little incentive to even step into a dealership. When I finally drove the recent nsx, it was a far step away from the old one, and not in a good way. It's a pretty car, but driving it was like playing a video game and I never truly gelled with it. Just like the c8 vette and the audi R8. Technically good cars, but just not fun. They're so lifeless, especially at low speeds.

I did like the mid 2000s tl type s. I think that was the best looking car honda/acura ever produced. Better than the its. I still rubber neck when I see one... Or an s2k.

Agreed re: new NSX... it looks pretty good (at least w. the front fascia update in the Type-S trim), and the V6 is actually a monster (and a big part of the reason it costs so much), but it just doesn't have the character I personally want in a RWD supercar. I only mentioned it because it does at least serve as a rare example of the brand pushing boundaries / taking things to the "nth degree" in a way they haven't since the 90s/early 2000s -- it's just that the things they decided to take to that degree ("wifi" brakes / steering) were the wrong things and made the car worse, imo. (Rumor is they originally had built a front-engined, NA, VTEC V10 coupe, but scrapped it at the last minute... that probably would have been a far more popular car.)

For me, sports cars peaked in the 2000s / early 2010s. I find that a lot of the "flaws" since engineered out of newer models in the pursuit of faster acceleration, more accessible speed, and a higher level of luxury were the things that gave older cars the character I love.

 

[ABPDE5]

We're not the only ones with build issues. The recent Toyota trucks have been trash, and their bumpers are worse paint qc than anything in our cars...

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/toy...sues-and-asks-when-was-last-year-toyota-built

Corporate rot / over-pursuit of efficiency... sad times.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Corporate rot / over-pursuit of efficiency... sad times.

Gotta make shareholder value grow somehow or the market kills you!

No one is allowed to just be a successful and consistent company anymore.

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