Sponsored


Integra Type S vs. Supra 3.0 as daily and track/weekend car

OP
OP
evanescent03

evanescent03

Senior Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
282
Reaction score
246
Location
USA
Car(s)
'24 Z06; '24 PWP ITS
I had a flashed M240 and that thing would definitely gap any ITS. The Integra feels more balanced.
i drove an m240i and thought it was a snoozefest. Those motors are darn fast especially with a tune, etc etc etc.

Price point doesn’t make sense to me on the non-m cars … unless certified which I think is the way to go. 2008 CPO 335i I got back in 2010 was such a great value. Not a track car but great street car.

I’ve had modern M cars and they’re fast, nice inside, but seem to lack low speed entertainment which is fun on back roads. That’s where I think the Supra lands pretty nicely … perhaps. Hmmm.
Sponsored

 

Xcfool

Senior Member
First Name
Blake
Joined
Mar 17, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
181
Reaction score
126
Location
Texas
Car(s)
Liquid Carbon Tech 6spd
While not totally relevent I still thought it was worthwhile to share.
 

nawfoo

Senior Member
First Name
Kay
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
259
Reaction score
140
Location
South West
Car(s)
Integra
The Supra is basically a rebadged M240. No way in hell would BMW let Toyota into their M ecosystem.
 
OP
OP
evanescent03

evanescent03

Senior Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
282
Reaction score
246
Location
USA
Car(s)
'24 Z06; '24 PWP ITS
I am incredibly close to trading my ITS in for a 2025 Java green m2. ….

I have a 6 year old and 3 year old, but would survive with the m2 as I dailied a Gt350R. Second one is the financial blood bath I would take on the car since values have plummeted….

I must resist temptation!
The Voodoo blue M2 is beautiful that I’ve been looking at .. buckets and 6MT.. carbon roof. Great spec but I prefer subtle colors to prevent negative attention. I think for the cost premium you get a lot of power, more “flex”… plus RWD hooning. I do think low speed fun and road communication is better in ITS. Can’t have it all lol. I haven’t driven an M2 and there are mixed reviews from the YouTubers it seems.

The more I hear about the Supra the more it sounds like a good option but not sure it’s worth losing the integra over. I may just wait longer and add another RWD to the garage.

There’s no perfect answer and after I track the ITS maybe I’ll be able to fall further in love with it or relegate it to street duty entirely and look for a separate track car

350R is fire.
 

Sponsored

ChromaPop

Senior Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
May 11, 2023
Threads
16
Messages
208
Reaction score
172
Location
Franklin, TN
Car(s)
Hyundai Veloster N; VW GTI's, Mazdaspeed 3, Mini C
I am confused as to who would buy an ITS as a 3rd vehicle. To me it is big and cavernous like a compact SUV, making it a true do it all 1 car solution for the enthusiast. If I were to buy a 3rd car it would be a new Miata, or a Corvette if you can afford it.
 

Victorofhavoc

Senior Member
First Name
Gordan
Joined
Jul 9, 2024
Threads
7
Messages
683
Reaction score
417
Location
Kansas City
Car(s)
Integra type s
I disagree that an FF car isn't tail happy or doesn't make a good track car for being fwd.

A well setup fwd (read as properly aligned and with a proper diff) should be MORE tail happy than rwd. The bulk of rotation through a corner happens with the brake, not the throttle. Having weight and drive at the front reduces rear mass and makes it easier to transfer momentum to the front and cause rotation (and grip) around the front axle. Just look at the mini and gti in older race series where they stomped on rwd cars. Check out the tcr series today.

That said, it's definitely inherently compromised in design, because you're asking the front wheels to do it all. With an alignment, brake pads, and no other changes I found the its to be incredibly oversteer prone. The downside is that you won't be lapping for 2hrs in any fwd car at pace; you'll always have to give up some speed to manage heat after a while, but at the end of the day that's really all performance driving at the limit is isn't it? 20-30min stints are not a huge issue.

I highly recommend getting an alignment before you take it out on track. It really is great to drive out there. It's just average to tolerable on the street, and honestly even on the street I feel it has too much top end and not enough low end grunt. It's an old school jekyl and hyde turbo that punches above 3k rpm, but below that it's near dead. My gti was a lot more fun around town, even with the dsg, because you could come out of slow corners and have enough boost and torque from 2 to 4k rpm to have fun without being super dangerous.

For a third car, I'd still take the supra over the its. For a third car that's a track car, I'd keep looking at older cayman, miata club, older lotus, and even the ft86 stuff. Corvettes, mustangs, camaros, m3, new m2 and all are decent and fun, but for track use they're heeeavy. I'm biased against the c8 🤣. I had such high hopes, but driving one on track it was very numb and one of my least favorite cars to hustle. On paper it's so good, but in reality I was disappointed. I drove it at the corvette track in Kentucky too 😑.


Sorry, too many words, but I had a lot of thoughts in my head as I read all this 🙃
 

elh0102

Senior Member
First Name
Ed
Joined
Dec 19, 2024
Threads
2
Messages
66
Reaction score
26
Location
NC
Car(s)
2025 Integra Type S
I disagree that an FF car isn't tail happy or doesn't make a good track car for being fwd.

A well setup fwd (read as properly aligned and with a proper diff) should be MORE tail happy than rwd. The bulk of rotation through a corner happens with the brake, not the throttle. Having weight and drive at the front reduces rear mass and makes it easier to transfer momentum to the front and cause rotation (and grip) around the front axle. Just look at the mini and gti in older race series where they stomped on rwd cars. Check out the tcr series today.

That said, it's definitely inherently compromised in design, because you're asking the front wheels to do it all. With an alignment, brake pads, and no other changes I found the its to be incredibly oversteer prone. The downside is that you won't be lapping for 2hrs in any fwd car at pace; you'll always have to give up some speed to manage heat after a while, but at the end of the day that's really all performance driving at the limit is isn't it? 20-30min stints are not a huge issue.

I highly recommend getting an alignment before you take it out on track. It really is great to drive out there. It's just average to tolerable on the street, and honestly even on the street I feel it has too much top end and not enough low end grunt. It's an old school jekyl and hyde turbo that punches above 3k rpm, but below that it's near dead. My gti was a lot more fun around town, even with the dsg, because you could come out of slow corners and have enough boost and torque from 2 to 4k rpm to have fun without being super dangerous.

For a third car, I'd still take the supra over the its. For a third car that's a track car, I'd keep looking at older cayman, miata club, older lotus, and even the ft86 stuff. Corvettes, mustangs, camaros, m3, new m2 and all are decent and fun, but for track use they're heeeavy. I'm biased against the c8 🤣. I had such high hopes, but driving one on track it was very numb and one of my least favorite cars to hustle. On paper it's so good, but in reality I was disappointed. I drove it at the corvette track in Kentucky too 😑.


Sorry, too many words, but I had a lot of thoughts in my head as I read all this 🙃
I have only 600 miles on my car, and don't plan on doing any track stuff with it. So far, I'm finding the car to be really much more neutral than I anticipated. The combination of the new front axle design and LSD does a great job. As you said, throttle and/or brake modulation can keep the car in good shape. Usually, if I'm doing a decent job of coming back on throttle in a turn, and the front end begins to wash out a little, a gentle lift and then back on throttle generally works well. Obviously, I have to be more disciplined in driving on a public road or ramp, both for safety and to keep the tires out of all the crap that accumulates near the pavement edge. The rpms have to be managed a bit more closely than I would have thought to stay on power. But that's just a matter of being aware of it and driving accordingly. All things considered, I'm pleased with the car, and I believe it will prove to be a good track retirement car.
 

optronix

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2023
Threads
23
Messages
1,421
Reaction score
2,052
Location
MD
Car(s)
2024 Integra Type S, 2023 Macan GTS
Good discussion. Overall, it's a tough comparison because the Supra is so limited in practicality- but I can see them being cross-shopped easily as "enthusiast cars". The Supra is very high on my list of cars I'd consider "adding" to the stable, but no way would I replace the ITS with it, for the rear doors/seats alone. But if I didn't need that extra passenger space (for my dog actually...), I would probably have a Supra or an M2. I do think it's a more "prestigious" performance car. And yes, more capable too.

That said, I'd encourage you to watch savagegeese's dedicated Supra videos- there are a couple of them so I won't link them here; as with pretty much all savagegeese content they're all worth watching anyway. But his (Mark's) observations are that the front and rear aren't as communicative as they should be in a track setting, and it upsets the balance of an otherwise very good sports car. Something to consider.

If you are interested in a RD sports car, take a look at a 2014/15 Porsche Cayman, the last of the flat 6 generation. It's guaranteed to make you smile!
NO! Those are terrible cars, no one should ever consider buying them, because if we all ran out and bought one we'd all be driving the same thing and that's super boring.

No bullshit, the 981 generation Cayman/Boxster is my favorite car ever and I'll never forgive myself from trading my full equity 981 BGTS away. There, I said it.

Also worth considering the M2, since it's so much better as a daily driver than the Supra but similar handling and a smidge faster (plus far better brakes). The Supra is smaller and lighter, which is a big advantage for a sports car but it compromises the daily driver aspect quit a bit. I've come close to buying a Supra a couple times but I still have my 2020 M2 Comp, if that tells you anything.
I was about to be that guy and call out that the Supra is heavier than the ITS- but I see you're comparing it to the M2. Just a shocking reminder of how light the ITS is. It's 300 POUNDS lighter than the Supra!!!

I am confused as to who would buy an ITS as a 3rd vehicle. To me it is big and cavernous like a compact SUV, making it a true do it all 1 car solution for the enthusiast. If I were to buy a 3rd car it would be a new Miata, or a Corvette if you can afford it.
Miata is always the answer. DEFINITELY not a 981.
 

TheRas900

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
189
Reaction score
95
Location
Philly Burbs
Car(s)
'18 Macan S and 2 '23 Integras, 1 6MT, 1 CVT
While not exactly your comparison, I have an Integra 6MT A Spec Tech and have driven the Type S and my 77-year old mother's (believe it or not) Supra auto. I also recently played around with the shifter on a Supra 6MT at the Philly auto show (while off). Here are some comments.

Supra engine and exhaust are on a different planet than the Integras.
The practicality and visibility of the Integra are on another planet.
The Integra's steering actually has a nicer weight, especially in Sport modes.
The Supra's seats and overall quality are much better.
The Supra's automatic is as good as the PDK in my wife's Macan. One of the best autos.
The Supra's steering wheel feels too thin.
The Integra's clutch is lighter, and the shifter feels more precise.
Toyota dealers have no idea what to do when a Supra comes in for service, and they provide the same level of attention they do to a 10 year old Corolla. Unfortunately, Acura dealers aren't much better.

As one's only car, the Integra wins. As an extra car, the Supra becomes more interesting. However, for just a little more money, the M2, or Z4 6MT fix the visibility, steering wheel and dealership experience flaws. I also prefer the lighter clutch and shifter in the true BMWs over the Supra, although not over the Acura.
 

Sponsored

OP
OP
evanescent03

evanescent03

Senior Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
282
Reaction score
246
Location
USA
Car(s)
'24 Z06; '24 PWP ITS
However, for just a little more money, the M2, or Z4 6MT fix the visibility, steering wheel and dealership experience flaws. I also prefer the lighter clutch and shifter in the true BMWs over the Supra, although not over the Acura.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Cool that your mom is rocking the Supra! How fun! There’s an x-factor when driving a car that is hard to appreciate by reading reviews. I wish I could test drive one. Or an M2. The M2 is $80k which is A) $15k more than the F80s I bought back in 2015-2016 which makes me sad, and B) quite about that much more than a Supra. Not sure if I consider that a reasonable increase. I’ve been an M fanboy for a long time but I think I’ve finally had my fill… maybe. I’ve gone back to M3s numerous times and they do fit my desires quite well aside from poorly laid out infotainment/HVAC, meh sound and the feeling of a being a touch over isolated … ITS has a great “connected to the road” feel IMO. I’d be looking for that inthe Supra. The car I feel like that has that in a small RWD car is the GR86. Delightful little car to rip on. I had the auto briefly while I was getting in some track days waiting for my 718GT4 to get built. GR86 is pretty darn slow which is okay on the street but giving so many point bys on the track gets tiring…

I just need to sleep on it. I love having the ITS for taking the family with me when I got on a rip. Can’t take them all in a 2 seater.

I need to drive a Supra sometime .. that’s the real answer.
 
OP
OP
evanescent03

evanescent03

Senior Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
282
Reaction score
246
Location
USA
Car(s)
'24 Z06; '24 PWP ITS
I am confused as to who would buy an ITS as a 3rd vehicle. To me it is big and cavernous like a compact SUV, making it a true do it all 1 car solution for the enthusiast. If I were to buy a 3rd car it would be a new Miata, or a Corvette if you can afford it.
F250 for doing work. Yukon for hauling kids. Integra feels like a GoKart in comparison. I’ve tried to convince my wife to use an M3 for her primary car … but she really loves the Yukon and she’s let me go through ~30 cars during our 12yr marriage so she deserves her Yukon. It really is a fantastic vehicle for road tripping (including taking our dog) and more than enough for baseball duty. The truck and Yukon have a lot of overlap so for an “ideal 3 car garage” it’s not extremely efficient, but it’s where we’re at and I think that for our situation it’s pretty ideal, the ITS is in the most flexible slot and could be anything from a Miata to an M5. In reality, 4 cars is probably the best solution, but I don’t want to do that until after our house is built.

ITS is a GREAT 3rd car for our use. My wife works from home and I drive 40-60mi/day so I end up using the the ITS a lot. Great daily driver (some complain that it’s harsh but it’s a Lexus compared to a 3/4 ton truck), i can go for a spirited (but safe) drive with the whole family on our way to Costco and still pack the trucks full for the return trip. With a Supra I’d be giving up those fun drives to dinner/shopping with the whole family. Commuting would still be fine.

I think I just need to test drive a Supra and see if I think it’s a big enough improvement in driving pleasure …. I do think it would be a better track car. Another alternative for 2 door RWD/6MT fun is a Dark Horse. Actually has a back seat for a short blast and family in tow. V8 goodness. Big sticky tires …. Annoying giant infotainment screen but it is compelling.

Anyways. So that’s a glimpse into my head. Haha.
 

ChromaPop

Senior Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
May 11, 2023
Threads
16
Messages
208
Reaction score
172
Location
Franklin, TN
Car(s)
Hyundai Veloster N; VW GTI's, Mazdaspeed 3, Mini C
F250 for doing work. Yukon for hauling kids. Integra feels like a GoKart in comparison. I’ve tried to convince my wife to use an M3 for her primary car … but she really loves the Yukon and she’s let me go through ~30 cars during our 12yr marriage so she deserves her Yukon. It really is a fantastic vehicle for road tripping (including taking our dog) and more than enough for baseball duty. The truck and Yukon have a lot of overlap so for an “ideal 3 car garage” it’s not extremely efficient, but it’s where we’re at and I think that for our situation it’s pretty ideal, the ITS is in the most flexible slot and could be anything from a Miata to an M5. In reality, 4 cars is probably the best solution, but I don’t want to do that until after our house is built.

ITS is a GREAT 3rd car for our use. My wife works from home and I drive 40-60mi/day so I end up using the the ITS a lot. Great daily driver (some complain that it’s harsh but it’s a Lexus compared to a 3/4 ton truck), i can go for a spirited (but safe) drive with the whole family on our way to Costco and still pack the trucks full for the return trip. With a Supra I’d be giving up those fun drives to dinner/shopping with the whole family. Commuting would still be fine.

I think I just need to test drive a Supra and see if I think it’s a big enough improvement in driving pleasure …. I do think it would be a better track car. Another alternative for 2 door RWD/6MT fun is a Dark Horse. Actually has a back seat for a short blast and family in tow. V8 goodness. Big sticky tires …. Annoying giant infotainment screen but it is compelling.

Anyways. So that’s a glimpse into my head. Haha.
Okay well based on that statement, since your ITS is a great daily for you (which makes my point), then your Truck is actually YOUR 3rd car.
 
OP
OP
evanescent03

evanescent03

Senior Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
282
Reaction score
246
Location
USA
Car(s)
'24 Z06; '24 PWP ITS
I disagree that an FF car isn't tail happy or doesn't make a good track car for being fwd.

A well setup fwd (read as properly aligned and with a proper diff) should be MORE tail happy than rwd. I'm biased against the c8 🤣. I had such high hopes, but driving one on track it was very numb and one of my least favorite cars to hustle. On paper it's so good, but in reality I was disappointed. I drove it at the corvette track in Kentucky too 😑.


Sorry, too many words, but I had a lot of thoughts in my head as I read all this 🙃

So many opinions which is why there are so many options! Fun talking through this stuff but ultimately it’s very subjective at the end of the day.

Forums are for sharing words so no reason to apologize regarding the verbosity!
 
OP
OP
evanescent03

evanescent03

Senior Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Nov 18, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
282
Reaction score
246
Location
USA
Car(s)
'24 Z06; '24 PWP ITS
Okay well based on that statement, since your ITS is a great daily for you (which makes my point), then your Truck is actually YOUR 3rd car.
that’s a nice way to think about it 👍🏼
Sponsored

 
 



Top