ForeverCar’s ITS Journal

[optronix]

I know the Germans as of late are notoriously underrating their engine outputs. That's essentially the root of my question, what real HP level is it making that makes it feel significantly faster? Looking in from the outside not actually being able to experience it myself, we're also getting feedback from the likes of Engineering Explained where he said his butt dyno (and his math) had the rolling acceleration of the ITS feel similar to the M2 at legal road speeds. The M2 is rocking 453hp (on paper) and when matching for the extra heft it carries, i expected the acceleration *feel* of the M2 = 911T = ITS on a perfect day.

In terms of power, I don't care AT ALL about 0-60, I'm more interested in the 70-125+. At those speeds the FWD has little to no disadvantage to RWD or AWD and it's purely the wind resistant which needs significantly more power to overcome it. In an ideal situation, I'd do a boost by gear where 1st, 2nd and 3rd were 100% stock power, and 4-6 were boosted to 400whp. I don't want a Texas2k or Bonneville salt flat vehicle but if the no bolt-on tune give ~80 extra hp, it has my curiosity if it means rolling on the highway I'd have the equivalent performance of a car twice the price, all while maintaining that sweet sweet corner performance.

I saw the engineering explained vid and my takeaway is that the ITS gearing and weight gives it distinct advantages in certain scenarios. But the K20C in stock form is not a powerhouse, and truthfully I could care less. It's fast enough. I've had plenty of cars with loads of power, and honestly the only one I truly miss is the N/A 4.0 in the 718. Something about the way that engine delivered power was sublime... but I just didn't buy the ITS for that sensation of speed and power and have found through experience that I can truly live without it.

My wife's Macan can rocket to 60 in about 3.5 seconds. Shit's crazy these days. But I still elect to take my ITS virtually anywhere I go because it's better to drive (but only just...).

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[ForeverCar]

I'm genuinely curious to know what the actual horsepower figures are. C&D has the 2024 911T at 379 HP and 330lbsft but the surprising part is the 911 is 100lbs more heavy than the ITS.

Does 60 more horsepower make that much more of a difference? If so it has me itching to consider a tune if it unlocks 400hp on the Integra.

When I get a chance, I will get the ITS on the scales with full tank of fuel for comparison. I suspect the 911T is less than 100lbs over the ITS.

However, the acceleration difference is mostly felt in 1st gear where the RR setup and wide rear tires of the 911T has a significant advantage over the ITS. Once acceleration gets to under 0.6g, it all feels kinda the same/okay/weak IMO.

Of course, you can achieve 1g+ with a highly modified R35 GT-R will rolling anti-lag in 3rd gear and even 4th gear.

 

[ForeverCar]

Fun thread @ForeverCar, appreciate sharing your thoughts and pics of the new toy. Great spec on the T.

I'm only 150 miles into the Type S (GS-R was my first car, from there wrenched/tracked all sorts of slow cars like it, Miata, WRX, 987 and no 981 P car) and its pretty close to a perfect commuter/ hatch for me given what little choice there is out there.

My ITS replaces a 335d which was a gem of a diesel cruiser but despite real BMW sport suspension, can't hold a candle to the turn in of the ITS nor how it wants to just scoot around. Its good to be back in a Honda

Every car has nits and compared to the 981 GTS, the ITS clutch is too light, and the GTSs gearing is too tall for street use. GTS clutch is about perfect, shifter is good but a smidge of slop compared to ITS. If we could graft them...

Track use is a different animal, and while I think the GTS is a forever car for me (last of the normal NA cars, save the 4.0 they slapped in the 718) its really hard to enjoy it responsibly on the street....too much traffic in the north east, deer, etc...it wants to stretch its legs.

ITS fills that street fun bucket for me. its not the B18C of my youth for sure, but a modern interpretation with carplay.

I'll take that.

@bvanlieu Welcome and glad to hear this thread is able to add a bit of joy for you. The ITS is truly amazing to be available today. Not that it helps much, I did make sure I add that to the Acura survey.

Not available in manual but Porsche deserves major credit for finally putting the GT3 engine in the GT4RS! While I think this whole "all going electric" will take longer than many expect, the GT4RS is likely going to be a special car when we look back.

The 4.0L used in the 718 GTS and GT4 is quite amazing. It only pales a bit because the GT3 engine exists. Our minds are easier "fooled"!

 

[ForeverCar]

Do you ever do the "pedal dance"? I have found I much more enjoy the character of the car w. VSA completely disabled via maintenance mode. The steering feedback is better, and as you pointed out, with VSA enabled, you can feel the car "correct" you.

Interesting you note the ITS seating position is quite a bit higher. It's always felt a little too high to me. I wish it was lower. I'd gladly trade my automatic seat functions for a lower seating height.

Yes, I do the "pedal dance" to disable VSA completely at times. Silly but I like the boost gauge so I don't do it as frequently as I probably would since I prefer the driving dynamics with VSA disabled.

The higher seating position has advantages though. Parking garages catered to SUVs and it is difficult to hit the button in the 911T.

 

[ForeverCar]

That said, I just love driving the ITS. It hits such a sweet spot for comfort, fun, sound, acceleration, braking, handling, good rear seat room, etc. I think I'm going to keep it a while and that's saying something since I'm a bit of a serial car rotator.

I hear you! My ITS has 3300+ miles now and not many cars make it that far for me. I still enjoy the ITS lots every time I drive it.

When it's clean, it feels extra special and looks great.

 

[ForeverCar]

I know the Germans as of late are notoriously underrating their engine outputs. That's essentially the root of my question, what real HP level is it making that makes it feel significantly faster? Looking in from the outside not actually being able to experience it myself, we're also getting feedback from the likes of Engineering Explained where he said his butt dyno (and his math) had the rolling acceleration of the ITS feel similar to the M2 at legal road speeds. The M2 is rocking 453hp (on paper) and when matching for the extra heft it carries, i expected the acceleration *feel* of the M2 = 911T = ITS on a perfect day.

In terms of power, I don't care AT ALL about 0-60, I'm more interested in the 70-125+. At those speeds the FWD has little to no disadvantage to RWD or AWD and it's purely the wind resistant which needs significantly more power to overcome it. In an ideal situation, I'd do a boost by gear where 1st, 2nd and 3rd were 100% stock power, and 4-6 were boosted to 400whp. I don't want a Texas2k or Bonneville salt flat vehicle but if the no bolt-on tune give ~80 extra hp, it has my curiosity if it means rolling on the highway I'd have the equivalent performance of a car twice the price, all while maintaining that sweet sweet corner performance.

If I remember correctly, there is a subtle aspect of Jason's video. The crux is "in 2nd gear acceleration is similar between the M2 and ITS". With the shorter gear ratio, ITS would be at a lower speed.

70-125+ is definitely a lot more about power. Traction still comes into the picture though if you are after 1+g type of acceleration. Boost by gear is a great way to balance things. Keep in mind, as amazing as the current turbochargers are, there are still trade offs on response and "top end" power. I think 400whp for 4-6 should be doable without a lot of compromises. In the dry, you can likely up the power for 3rd too.

 

[ForeverCar]

I saw the engineering explained vid and my takeaway is that the ITS gearing and weight gives it distinct advantages in certain scenarios. But the K20C in stock form is not a powerhouse, and truthfully I could care less. It's fast enough. I've had plenty of cars with loads of power, and honestly the only one I truly miss is the N/A 4.0 in the 718. Something about the way that engine delivered power was sublime... but I just didn't buy the ITS for that sensation of speed and power and have found through experience that I can truly live without it.

My wife's Macan can rocket to 60 in about 3.5 seconds. Shit's crazy these days. But I still elect to take my ITS virtually anywhere I go because it's better to drive (but only just...).

We have a family car as well. I get a bit "sad" every time I "have" to drive that so ITS was my solution.

 

[ForeverCar]

I got lucky and am going back to the tail of the dragon area for another 3 days! Weather is not going to be great but I think I will still have lots of fun.

A bit of a silly game. I wonder if some of you might be able to guess what car I get to enjoy for this trip based on some minimal/cryptic info.

What car fits the following?
RWD, naturally aspirated, manual, no sunroof, manual window, no A/C, unassisted steering, not available in the US new but can be imported legally now.

Any guesses?

 

[SilverRocket]

If I remember correctly, there is a subtle aspect of Jason's video. The crux is "in 2nd gear acceleration is similar between the M2 and ITS". With the shorter gear ratio, ITS would be at a lower speed.

70-125+ is definitely a lot more about power. Traction still comes into the picture though if you are after 1+g type of acceleration. Boost by gear is a great way to balance things. Keep in mind, as amazing as the current turbochargers are, there are still trade offs on response and "top end" power. I think 400whp for 4-6 should be doable without a lot of compromises. In the dry, you can likely up the power for 3rd too.

I appreciate the responses. Basically your other post answered it clearly. Your perspective was based on 1st gear pull and as soon as I read that I understood, it's no contest.

 

[ABPDE5]

I got lucky and am going back to the tail of the dragon area for another 3 days! Weather is not going to be great but I think I will still have lots of fun.

A bit of a silly game. I wonder if some of you might be able to guess what car I get to enjoy for this trip based on some minimal/cryptic info.

What car fits the following?
RWD, naturally aspirated, manual, no sunroof, manual window, no A/C, unassisted steering, not available in the US new but can be imported legally now.

Any guesses?

NSX-R?

 

[ForeverCar]

NSX-R?

Great guess! I did not think of the NSX-R when I was thinking up the clues. Not NSX-R though.

It is a 6-cylinder engine.

 

[Integra23]

I got lucky and am going back to the tail of the dragon area for another 3 days! Weather is not going to be great but I think I will still have lots of fun.

A bit of a silly game. I wonder if some of you might be able to guess what car I get to enjoy for this trip based on some minimal/cryptic info.

What car fits the following?
RWD, naturally aspirated, manual, no sunroof, manual window, no A/C, unassisted steering, not available in the US new but can be imported legally now.

Any guesses?

R34 GT-R, Noble M10, 996.1 GT3

 

[ABPDE5]

R34 GT-R, Noble M10, 996.1 GT3

R34 was my next guess!
Didn't consider the Noble.

 

[QUIKAG]

Nissan Silvia?

 

[ForeverCar]

The naturally aspirated guess is getting warm.

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