Yeah, the RS3 is great. If I wasn't making a manual a priority the RS3 would probably be what I ended up with, primarily based on how much I loved the S3.
In the US it should be ~$9K USD more than the ITS, or maybe ~$15K with an average spec. But since dealers are marking up the ITS $5K+, the price becomes a lot closer. The reality is most dealers here want you to spend about $60K for a CTR or ITS, which is way too close to the RS3. I do expect this to change eventually for the ITS though! And I know some Acura dealers are still committed to MSRP (though none here in Oregon).
Funny you should say that... the owner of Acura Columbus was in yesterday, specifically drove up from Cincinnati in one of his two 911's to test drive the ITS, and he came in grinning from ear to ear insisting that "you could slap a Porsche badge on that thing and I wouldn't know the difference."
And a stick shift
I got an 8 year old kid and she's already pretty much outgrown the back seat, and good luck getting much of anything in that trunk between the small size and the awkward entry angle.
Lol. Forgot to mention the obviousAnd a stick shift
Good write up, and great for folks cross-shopping the M2. I wanted to like the G87, I really really did... but the sloppy manual is just unacceptable at this point, after Toyota proved it could be done. I'd still definitely be driving one to make sure... if it had rear doors.Test drove the local ITS demo twice. The first drive was somewhat spirited. The second drive was far more intense; I pushed the car pretty hard. I performed both drives before reading or watching a single review, and my thoughts below represent my impressions at the time.
First impressions after the first drive - I loved it. Extremely impressed by how they refined the CTR without compromising the fun factor. The shifter is fabulous, with short and direct throws. I immediately noticed the additional midrange power. Nice and punchy delivery in the 2-4k range. The exhaust note is better than the CTR; both smoother and more "performance-y". Steering is very direct, though with an unremarkable amount of feedback. The car eagerly dives into tight corners; the car remained neutral, and nothing about it gave away the FWD orientation. The suspension was compliant and refined, while still clearly tuned to allow for speedy and confident cornering. The salesman allowed me a relatively short route and wanted me to drive conservatively, so it wasn't the most informative experience, but I did get that "sold in 100 feet" feeling and was ready to place my order.
When we got back, a friend arrived who set up his own test drive experience with another salesman. I tagged along with him. This salesperson was far more accommodating about the length and intensity of the drive. When I realized this, I requested a second drive with him so that I could truly put the car through its paces. My turn came up, and I got behind the wheel.
Updated impressions. OK, this is definitely still an FWD car. Aggressive shifts and acceleration at lower speeds yielded meaningful wheel hop and some torque steer. Pushing much harder through corners, the softer ITS setup showed in the car leaning not insignificantly from side to side. Maybe a little understeer when really going for it? I'll probably take it out again to confirm.
On return, I was still quite impressed by the car - the combo of performance, practicality, and price is quite compelling. To confirm my thoughts, I took my car out on the same extended test drive route.
The car I brought was the 2023 BMW M2 with manual transmission. The delta between the two cars when really pushing is quite large. The M2 is simply in another class in power. They're closer in handling, but the M2 absolutely will go around a corner faster and in a more interesting way. I didn't get to really test the brakes on the ITS, but the M2 will repeatedly do 140-40 over and over without fading and with complete confidence. The M2 shifter is not as good as the ITS one, but it's not bad, either. I'd say 3.9 stars for the M2 one and 4.8 stars for the ITS one. The ITS definitely felt lighter - it is - but the M2 didn't feel like it drove "heavy" in comparison. It's just as eager as the ITS to dart into a corner or change direction.
I was thankful for the second ITS drive and the immediate back-to-back G87 M2 drive, as I would've been disappointed by how the ITS experience falls off a bit when driving it really hard. In isolation and at more normal speeds, I think the ITS is sensational - perfect fun daily driver. However, I would never pay over MSRP for one as it's already too close to the M2's price for what it is. After having now consumed a bunch of reviews of both cars, I am perplexed by the mixed reviews on the M2 (in the context of excellent reviews for the ITS). The M2 offers a ridiculous driving experience for only the $10k upcharge. I came away feeling that the M2 should probably cost $20-25k more.
I still think the ITS is a great buy - at MSRP. If money is a consideration and everything could be had at MSRP, I'd definitely take a $44k CTR over a $52k ITS. 10 out of 10 times. However, in the real world of ADM, an ITS at MSRP is definitely the right choice over a CTR at ADM. If you need backseats and 2 extra doors, these are your choices. If not and you like to drive really hard from time to time, I don't see how you don't spend the extra $10k or so on the M2. It's simply way more capable hardware.
I definitely can see the ITS being the perfect "Goldilocks" choice for lots of people, especially with the CTR ADM situation. I'm here because the experience made an impression and I'm still very much interested.
I recognize that dealership! Pretty sure we drove the same car, hah. I was actually surprised at the wheel hop — that's something that bugs me about my Elantra N and I sorta assumed that somehow the magical engineers at Honda engineered that out. But definitely present on my drive.Test drove the local ITS demo twice. The first drive was somewhat spirited. The second drive was far more intense; I pushed the car pretty hard. I performed both drives before reading or watching a single review, and my thoughts below represent my impressions at the time.
First impressions after the first drive - I loved it. Extremely impressed by how they refined the CTR without compromising the fun factor. The shifter is fabulous, with short and direct throws. I immediately noticed the additional midrange power. Nice and punchy delivery in the 2-4k range. The exhaust note is better than the CTR; both smoother and more "performance-y". Steering is very direct, though with an unremarkable amount of feedback. The car eagerly dives into tight corners; the car remained neutral, and nothing about it gave away the FWD orientation. The suspension was compliant and refined, while still clearly tuned to allow for speedy and confident cornering. The salesman allowed me a relatively short route and wanted me to drive conservatively, so it wasn't the most informative experience, but I did get that "sold in 100 feet" feeling and was ready to place my order.
When we got back, a friend arrived who set up his own test drive experience with another salesman. I tagged along with him. This salesperson was far more accommodating about the length and intensity of the drive. When I realized this, I requested a second drive with him so that I could truly put the car through its paces. My turn came up, and I got behind the wheel.
Updated impressions. OK, this is definitely still an FWD car. Aggressive shifts and acceleration at lower speeds yielded meaningful wheel hop and some torque steer. Pushing much harder through corners, the softer ITS setup showed in the car leaning not insignificantly from side to side. Maybe a little understeer when really going for it? I'll probably take it out again to confirm.
On return, I was still quite impressed by the car - the combo of performance, practicality, and price is quite compelling. To confirm my thoughts, I took my car out on the same extended test drive route.
The car I brought was the 2023 BMW M2 with manual transmission. The delta between the two cars when really pushing is quite large. The M2 is simply in another class in power. They're closer in handling, but the M2 absolutely will go around a corner faster and in a more interesting way. I didn't get to really test the brakes on the ITS, but the M2 will repeatedly do 140-40 over and over without fading and with complete confidence. The M2 shifter is not as good as the ITS one, but it's not bad, either. I'd say 3.9 stars for the M2 one and 4.8 stars for the ITS one. The ITS definitely felt lighter - it is - but the M2 didn't feel like it drove "heavy" in comparison. It's just as eager as the ITS to dart into a corner or change direction.
I was thankful for the second ITS drive and the immediate back-to-back G87 M2 drive, as I would've been disappointed by how the ITS experience falls off a bit when driving it really hard. In isolation and at more normal speeds, I think the ITS is sensational - perfect fun daily driver. However, I would never pay over MSRP for one as it's already too close to the M2's price for what it is. After having now consumed a bunch of reviews of both cars, I am perplexed by the mixed reviews on the M2 (in the context of excellent reviews for the ITS). The M2 offers a ridiculous driving experience for only the $10k upcharge. I came away feeling that the M2 should probably cost $20-25k more.
I still think the ITS is a great buy - at MSRP. If money is a consideration and everything could be had at MSRP, I'd definitely take a $44k CTR over a $52k ITS. 10 out of 10 times. However, in the real world of ADM, an ITS at MSRP is definitely the right choice over a CTR at ADM. If you need backseats and 2 extra doors, these are your choices. If not and you like to drive really hard from time to time, I don't see how you don't spend the extra $10k or so on the M2. It's simply way more capable hardware.
Nice - I'm sure we drove the same car.
This is very helpful. I had given up on the ITS after the pricing came out. And I started looking at F87 M2 Comps and CSs instead. For 50, you can get the F87 or the ITS. The G87 is of no interest to me given the numb steering and brakes. So, your perspective is actually helpful.
The problem with both the F87 and G87 is that they're German muscle cars. For simplicity's sake, what I mean by that is that the character of the cars and how they engage with the driver is more about brute force than delicate balance. If you like that kind of thing, you can deal with the "numb" inputs, because cars like the CTR and ITS can't match the sliding around, power oversteer stuff people like to do in those cars.
I'd give up on the CS. It's an absolutely fantastic car, but I don't feel like they will ever come back down to reality, and IMO just not worth it at the ~$100k price point when you can get a comp for almost half that (and a GTS 4.0 or Emira for the same cost). Talk about a car for fanboys, that's the CS. Good news if you already have one, terrible news if you're in the market.
The F87 and G87 are different cars. The G87 brings a level of composure, precision, and linearity of power delivery not present in the F87. I wouldn’t call it a muscle car, though it is quite powerful for its class. It is this new “composure” that some F87 vets are calling “lack of engagement”. I’ve owned an F87 Competition and, after lots of miles in the G87, don’t agree with that.
