In The Market for ITS

[alvinmpower]

Hi Guys, new here,

currently owner of a 2016 m4, looking to get into a ITS.

from reading some of the posts looks like everyone who got ITS is either from Civics Si or A-spec.

I'm interested in this car because I think it looks great and I'm itching to get back into an manual, some other cars I'm cross shopping is a CPO CT4V BW, Elantra N, Golf R and that's it from the segment. Also looking at CPO SQ5 or Macan because I want a really comfortable ride since they come with air suspension. If I get a sedan I want a stick, if I get an SUV I'm going for the compact SUV with air suspension. All of these cars are around 50k used except for ITS/N/Golf being new.

The main reason I want to make the switch is because I daily the M4 and it's my only car, I rarely pushing the car and I feel like it's a waste. It's super uncomfortable on long drives which I do from time to time. So I'm looking to either going into something more comfortable like the SQ5/Macan, or something a little more exciting and luxury with a stick.

Looking for opinions from long term owners, and other who have cross shopped same car as me. Also if you came from a big horse power car, would this car disappoint? My current M4 on stage 1 make about 550 hp and I feel dissatisfied sometimes. My previous car was a 6MT 440i, and that car was way more exciting than my M4 tbh, even though it was down on power compare to the M4.

I'm going to a dealer tomorrow to check couple ones out and maybe work on some numbers. The sad thing is the sales person told me I won't be able to test drive, best is driving around the parking lot, and that is after I signed the paper? Because of "break in" period? Anyone else have this issue? I mean if I can't drive the car how do I know if it's better than the other cars I'm cross shopping? If I walk into a BMW dealership they will let me test drive any M cars, and those also have break in period. It's ridiculous how some of these lower tier dealership operates. I went to Kia to test drive stinger, denied, so I went and bought a Mercedes. Went to Toyota ask to test drive a supra, denied, so I went bought a BMW. Now I'm about to go to Acura trying to test drive a ITS, if I'm not allowed to test drive it I might just end up getting the CPO SQ5 or Macan GTS, since they are allowed to be test driven. Someone tell me why this car is worth getting without even a test drive.

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[ghostkp]

That’s ridiculous they won’t even let you test drive it. Honestly, for me the look and feel is so worth it. It’s got an extremely sporty feel inside and out, mix that with the hud and great speakers then it’s awesome mix. People are constantly giving me thumbs up or compliments, and the car just radiates personality and individuality without even doing minor mods.

One big downside is how often you have to fill up the vehicle.

 

[Brodgo27]

I was allowed a test drive before I bought my ITS. If the dealer doesn’t allow you then don’t buy from them.

 

[alvinmpower]

Honestly the reason why I want this car is because I love the look of it, especially from the rear, look nothing like the A-Spec. Also I test drove an A-spec before, was gonna consider it as an daily next to the M4, but heard the ITS was gonna come out so I waited for it. I also test drove a TLX type S before at a different dealership because they had a test unit, which was there for test drive purpose only. How does ITS compare to the TLX Type S? I liked the TLX Type S, and thought it had great power delivery and was pretty fun to drive.

 

[SilverRocket]

I was allowed a test drive before I bought my ITS. If the dealer doesn’t allow you then don’t buy from them.

It's a double edge sword. Very few dealerships have dedicated ITS demo car and I would be appalled if I found out some clown took my ITS out for a test drive so I'm grateful the local dealerships say no.

Too many people have zero regard for other people's property these days, there's definitely an abuse it and dump it on someone else mentality. It is why I would almost never considered used in this day and age and happy I got mine with only 9 kilometers on the odometer.

OP, was the A-Spec you drove the manual or CVT? If you drove the manual version, I'd say you experienced 7 or 8 tenths of the ITS. Basically the ITS is everything good about the Si/A-Spec, just dialed to great. This coming from a 9th gen Si owner who loves his ITS.

If however you've never driven a sporty Honda manual before, ask if you could take a manual A-Spec out for a spin, or go to a Honda dealership and ask to test drive the Civic Si (if possible). I'd be willing to bet $5 the shifter feel alone would sell you on the car given you want a manual daily driver.

 

[alvinmpower]

OP, was the A-Spec you drove the manual or CVT? If you drove the manual version, I'd say you experienced 7 or 8 tenths of the ITS. Basically the ITS is everything good about the Si/A-Spec, just dialed to great. This coming from a 9th gen Si owner who loves his ITS.

I drove the 6MT version, wouldn't even think about the CVT. Honestly while I was driving the car it reminded me the fun of the 6MT in my 440i, which is why I'm itching to get back into a manual again. I honestly hated the manual when I owned it, it was my first manual car and I just didn't want to deal with is so I got DCT for the M4.

 

[TheRas900]

It's a double edge sword. Very few dealerships have dedicated ITS demo car and I would be appalled if I found out some clown took my ITS out for a test drive so I'm grateful the local dealerships say no.

Too many people have zero regard for other people's property these days, there's definitely an abuse it and dump it on someone else mentality. It is why I would almost never considered used in this day and age and happy I got mine with only 9 kilometers on the odometer.

OP, was the A-Spec you drove the manual or CVT? If you drove the manual version, I'd say you experienced 7 or 8 tenths of the ITS. Basically the ITS is everything good about the Si/A-Spec, just dialed to great. This coming from a 9th gen Si owner who loves his ITS.

If however you've never driven a sporty Honda manual before, ask if you could take a manual A-Spec out for a spin, or go to a Honda dealership and ask to test drive the Civic Si (if possible). I'd be willing to bet $5 the shifter feel alone would sell you on the car given you want a manual daily driver.

Exactly this, the A Spec 6MT will feel rather similar to give you a decent gauge. I had a '16 328 6MT and my wife drives a Macan S. All 3 are great vehicles. If you really want a manual, nobody does it better than Acura/Honda. If that's not a huge consideration, you might prefer the interior quality and power of the Macan.

If you don't need rear seats, the upcoming Z4 seems like the best of all worlds. It should feel pretty similar to your 440 which resale values show were an amazing vehicle. Good luck on your search!

 

[Brittania]

Hi Guys, new here,

currently owner of a 2016 m4, looking to get into a ITS.

from reading some of the posts looks like everyone who got ITS is either from Civics Si or A-spec.

I'm interested in this car because I think it looks great and I'm itching to get back into an manual, some other cars I'm cross shopping is a CPO CT4V BW, Elantra N, Golf R and that's it from the segment. Also looking at CPO SQ5 or Macan because I want a really comfortable ride since they come with air suspension. If I get a sedan I want a stick, if I get an SUV I'm going for the compact SUV with air suspension. All of these cars are around 50k used except for ITS/N/Golf being new.

The main reason I want to make the switch is because I daily the M4 and it's my only car, I rarely pushing the car and I feel like it's a waste. It's super uncomfortable on long drives which I do from time to time. So I'm looking to either going into something more comfortable like the SQ5/Macan, or something a little more exciting and luxury with a stick.

Looking for opinions from long term owners, and other who have cross shopped same car as me. Also if you came from a big horse power car, would this car disappoint? My current M4 on stage 1 make about 550 hp and I feel dissatisfied sometimes. My previous car was a 6MT 440i, and that car was way more exciting than my M4 tbh, even though it was down on power compare to the M4.

I'm going to a dealer tomorrow to check couple ones out and maybe work on some numbers. The sad thing is the sales person told me I won't be able to test drive, best is driving around the parking lot, and that is after I signed the paper? Because of "break in" period? Anyone else have this issue? I mean if I can't drive the car how do I know if it's better than the other cars I'm cross shopping? If I walk into a BMW dealership they will let me test drive any M cars, and those also have break in period. It's ridiculous how some of these lower tier dealership operates. I went to Kia to test drive stinger, denied, so I went and bought a Mercedes. Went to Toyota ask to test drive a supra, denied, so I went bought a BMW. Now I'm about to go to Acura trying to test drive a ITS, if I'm not allowed to test drive it I might just end up getting the CPO SQ5 or Macan GTS, since they are allowed to be test driven. Someone tell me why this car is worth getting without even a test drive.

Where in Virginia are you? Carmax in Midlothian has a used type S available to test drive. Close to the center of the state so regardless of where you are shouldn't be more than 2 hours away.

 

[Brittania]

Also two used FL5's in Northern Virginia which will give you 99% of the driving feel.

 

[optronix]

I had a 2015 M4 DCT for 2.5 years, my wife currently has a 2023 Macan GTS, and I've had my ITS since July- and my others in between. Hopefully I can relate to your situation pretty well and provide some input in your decision making. Sucks you can't drive it- you kind of need to drive one lol. But I'll weigh in anyway.

My M4 was stock- and I actually pretty much loved that car. I think the F8X M cars are some of the best looking cars ever built. Also, I agree that for mundane tasks they can feel downright sterile and unenjoyable, and even in stock form was the car that helped me realize that a lot of power doesn't really translate to having "fun", and the novelty wears off after a while. Maybe I would have liked it more if it was manual, or if I took it out to a track more often.

The ITS delivers on everything I felt the M4 was missing, in nearly all scenarios. I'd even argue the ITS is better for the track because I cooked the steel brakes badly enough they needed replaced (under warranty fortunately), in about half a session in my M4 at Summit Point. In fact, in between the M4 and the ITS I had several Porsches (and a handful of Audis...), and I've said on here numerous times that the ITS is so good I don't miss the Porsches (mostly). I can't necessarily relate to your tuned M4 but I don't feel like the car needs more power; if you tuned your M4 you'll probably tune the ITS and there are many folks on here who went that route and are very pleased with the results. So if straight line speed is lacking for you, you can solve that pretty easily as the ITS takes kindly to mods. For me though, it just doesn't need it.

As for the Macan- the one in my garage now is my 3rd after owning both previous generations of the S model before it. It's the wife's car- but probably my favorite car, maybe ever. Besides the obvious fact it is not available with a manual, it does literally everything well; IMO it's the best driving sports sedan on the market despite being an SUV, and even looks and sounds great while it's at it. The steering and ride quality is as good as anything else out there- I'd explain it as being as good as the Porsche sports cars but not nearly as capable. I.e., you're really not missing much from the driving experience in a Macan GTS than you would in a 718 or 911 on the street... but I wouldn't bother taking it on a track. Maybe that makes sense.

In any case, it's astonishing that Porsche extracted this much of a driving experience out of an SUV platform... but the catch is I wouldn't recommend anything but the latest version of the GTS, model year 2022 and up, or 95B.3. Many reasons for that. Porsche decided to get rid of the Macan Turbo for 2022, and slide the GTS up as the top model for the Macan. In doing so, they put a ton of effort into tuning all the intangibles for the GTS. Steering feel, chassis feel, exhaust sound, transmission engagement- it's all been tweaked for the GTS and makes a huge difference. Some people claim that the S is "just as good", and maybe it is better than the previous generation S's (it does share the same engine with the GTS this time around...), but the difference between the 2019 Macan S I replaced it with and this 2023 GTS is night and day.

All this said, the MSRP of my Macan was $108k. I doubt you'd find one used for much less than $80k, even with the collapsing used market... which makes the ITS the obvious choice. The Macan is great, but at 2x the cost, my priorities favor the ITS.

 

[bpebler]

I had a 2015 M4 DCT for 2.5 years, my wife currently has a 2023 Macan GTS, and I've had my ITS since July- and my others in between. Hopefully I can relate to your situation pretty well and provide some input in your decision making. Sucks you can't drive it- you kind of need to drive one lol. But I'll weigh in anyway.

My M4 was stock- and I actually pretty much loved that car. I think the F8X M cars are some of the best looking cars ever built. Also, I agree that for mundane tasks they can feel downright sterile and unenjoyable, and even in stock form was the car that helped me realize that a lot of power doesn't really translate to having "fun", and the novelty wears off after a while. Maybe I would have liked it more if it was manual, or if I took it out to a track more often.

The ITS delivers on everything I felt the M4 was missing, in nearly all scenarios. I'd even argue the ITS is better for the track because I cooked the steel brakes badly enough they needed replaced (under warranty fortunately), in about half a session in my M4 at Summit Point. In fact, in between the M4 and the ITS I had several Porsches (and a handful of Audis...), and I've said on here numerous times that the ITS is so good I don't miss the Porsches (mostly). I can't necessarily relate to your tuned M4 but I don't feel like the car needs more power; if you tuned your M4 you'll probably tune the ITS and there are many folks on here who went that route and are very pleased with the results. So if straight line speed is lacking for you, you can solve that pretty easily as the ITS takes kindly to mods. For me though, it just doesn't need it.

As for the Macan- the one in my garage now is my 3rd after owning both previous generations of the S model before it. It's the wife's car- but probably my favorite car, maybe ever. Besides the obvious fact it is not available with a manual, it does literally everything well; IMO it's the best driving sports sedan on the market despite being an SUV, and even looks and sounds great while it's at it. The steering and ride quality is as good as anything else out there- I'd explain it as being as good as the Porsche sports cars but not nearly as capable. I.e., you're really not missing much from the driving experience in a Macan GTS than you would in a 718 or 911 on the street... but I wouldn't bother taking it on a track. Maybe that makes sense.

In any case, it's astonishing that Porsche extracted this much of a driving experience out of an SUV platform... but the catch is I wouldn't recommend anything but the latest version of the GTS, model year 2022 and up, or 95B.3. Many reasons for that. Porsche decided to get rid of the Macan Turbo for 2022, and slide the GTS up as the top model for the Macan. In doing so, they put a ton of effort into tuning all the intangibles for the GTS. Steering feel, chassis feel, exhaust sound, transmission engagement- it's all been tweaked for the GTS and makes a huge difference. Some people claim that the S is "just as good", and maybe it is better than the previous generation S's (it does share the same engine with the GTS this time around...), but the difference between the 2019 Macan S I replaced it with and this 2023 GTS is night and day.

All this said, the MSRP of my Macan was $108k. I doubt you'd find one used for much less than $80k, even with the collapsing used market... which makes the ITS the obvious choice. The Macan is great, but at 2x the cost, my priorities favor the ITS.

Might be worth considering adding just the Paragon titanium brake shims!

I looked again at local used Macan’s & you’re right, even the “affordable” ones around 50-60k near me all have 30-45k miles.

 

[alvinmpower]

I had a 2015 M4 DCT for 2.5 years, my wife currently has a 2023 Macan GTS, and I've had my ITS since July- and my others in between. Hopefully I can relate to your situation pretty well and provide some input in your decision making. Sucks you can't drive it- you kind of need to drive one lol. But I'll weigh in anyway.

My M4 was stock- and I actually pretty much loved that car. I think the F8X M cars are some of the best looking cars ever built. Also, I agree that for mundane tasks they can feel downright sterile and unenjoyable, and even in stock form was the car that helped me realize that a lot of power doesn't really translate to having "fun", and the novelty wears off after a while. Maybe I would have liked it more if it was manual, or if I took it out to a track more often.

The ITS delivers on everything I felt the M4 was missing, in nearly all scenarios. I'd even argue the ITS is better for the track because I cooked the steel brakes badly enough they needed replaced (under warranty fortunately), in about half a session in my M4 at Summit Point. In fact, in between the M4 and the ITS I had several Porsches (and a handful of Audis...), and I've said on here numerous times that the ITS is so good I don't miss the Porsches (mostly). I can't necessarily relate to your tuned M4 but I don't feel like the car needs more power; if you tuned your M4 you'll probably tune the ITS and there are many folks on here who went that route and are very pleased with the results. So if straight line speed is lacking for you, you can solve that pretty easily as the ITS takes kindly to mods. For me though, it just doesn't need it.

As for the Macan- the one in my garage now is my 3rd after owning both previous generations of the S model before it. It's the wife's car- but probably my favorite car, maybe ever. Besides the obvious fact it is not available with a manual, it does literally everything well; IMO it's the best driving sports sedan on the market despite being an SUV, and even looks and sounds great while it's at it. The steering and ride quality is as good as anything else out there- I'd explain it as being as good as the Porsche sports cars but not nearly as capable. I.e., you're really not missing much from the driving experience in a Macan GTS than you would in a 718 or 911 on the street... but I wouldn't bother taking it on a track. Maybe that makes sense.

In any case, it's astonishing that Porsche extracted this much of a driving experience out of an SUV platform... but the catch is I wouldn't recommend anything but the latest version of the GTS, model year 2022 and up, or 95B.3. Many reasons for that. Porsche decided to get rid of the Macan Turbo for 2022, and slide the GTS up as the top model for the Macan. In doing so, they put a ton of effort into tuning all the intangibles for the GTS. Steering feel, chassis feel, exhaust sound, transmission engagement- it's all been tweaked for the GTS and makes a huge difference. Some people claim that the S is "just as good", and maybe it is better than the previous generation S's (it does share the same engine with the GTS this time around...), but the difference between the 2019 Macan S I replaced it with and this 2023 GTS is night and day.

All this said, the MSRP of my Macan was $108k. I doubt you'd find one used for much less than $80k, even with the collapsing used market... which makes the ITS the obvious choice. The Macan is great, but at 2x the cost, my priorities favor the ITS.

Bro that is a great write up, appreciate the response.

I feel exact same about my M4, even after tuned. The DCT is fun but it gets dull after a while. The power is great but it gets dull after a while. There is really no driving pleasure anymore other than looking at the car because it's one of the best looking M car next to the M8.

I drove a 2018 Macan GTS and SQ5 back to back and I feel like you really aren't missing much. Obviously the Macan is RWD bias vs SQ5 being more FWD, so the Macan is more agile and sporty. A 21 cpo sq5 is 20k less (about 35-40k dollar) than a 21 cpo Macan (about 55-60k dollar) at the same mileage (about 30-40k miles), I can't justify spending 20k more and having the pay Porsche tax on maintenance.

I really like the design of ITS, I have been appreciate Acura design since the new TLX. I'm really just in between if I want more luxury and comfort do it all daily like the SQ5 or do I want another exciting sport sedan. BMW design has been god awful since the new G8x, that's what really make me appreciate my F82. I love the way my car looks but just not the driving pleasure anymore.

 

[optronix]

Bro that is a great write up, appreciate the response.

I feel exact same about my M4, even after tuned. The DCT is fun but it gets dull after a while. The power is great but it gets dull after a while. There is really no driving pleasure anymore other than looking at the car because it's one of the best looking M car next to the M8.

I drove a 2018 Macan GTS and SQ5 back to back and I feel like you really aren't missing much. Obviously the Macan is RWD bias vs SQ5 being more FWD, so the Macan is more agile and sporty. A 21 cpo sq5 is 20k less (about 35-40k dollar) than a 21 cpo Macan (about 55-60k dollar) at the same mileage (about 30-40k miles), I can't justify spending 20k more and having the pay Porsche tax on maintenance.

I really like the design of ITS, I have been appreciate Acura design since the new TLX. I'm really just in between if I want more luxury and comfort do it all daily like the SQ5 or do I want another exciting sport sedan. BMW design has been god awful since the new G8x, that's what really make me appreciate my F82. I love the way my car looks but just not the driving pleasure anymore.

I think you're pretty spot on with your assessment of the 2018 GTS. It's marginally better than an SQ5, but not worth the premium- if anything, it comes down to the engine, and as much as I love the 2.9 and do think it's been proven to be more reliable, the 3.0 is pretty great too. These engines are all shared across many different cars in the VAG catalog; I had the 2.9 in an RS5 but I had the 3.0 in both Macans (although it was a different engine in the 95B.1...) and an S4. The 2.9 borders on special- and with the improved exhaust note of the 95B.3 I personally think it actually is special- but the 3.0 is a truly great engine by itself. Just as long as you're aware that the SQ5 is just the Audi version of the Macan S and that works for you, the SQ5 presents a great value.

Call me crazy though, but the 2022 and up Macan GTS is just an entirely different car. But you do have to pay that premium for it being much newer. Higher mileage 2018 Macan GTS's can be found in the 50s as @bpebler noted, but it's not the same experience.

All this said, the one thing I didn't overtly call out in all my dissertation above- I think the single largest factor to consider with the ITS is if you are planning on taking it to a track at all. If you do think you'll fit some track time in with your next car purchase, I'd have to strongly recommend the ITS. It is 100% a capable track car, where as I mentioned previously I wouldn't bother taking the Macan to a track at all, let alone the SQ5... in fact many track events just flat out won't allow them.

It's a critical advantage the ITS has, in that very few other cars at or even above its price point are as track-capable. I can't think of any car on the market that offer the same level of track readiness and practicality that the ITS offers, period full stop. An F80 M3 would have been my next suggestion, ironically.

Which is why for me it's been a very effective cure for my "car ADHD". The only way I'd consider replacing my ITS is with a PMC edition, should they choose to make one.

Speaking of which, the TLX is a gorgeous car, and I think a good car to consider if you're looking at an SQ5. Similar price point to the SQ5, probably better driving experience, maybe a little less practicality (although it's quite large, weighing in at nearly 4000 lbs). I wouldn't put it anywhere near the same class as an ITS for driving dynamics though. Again, a very pleasant and fun daily, sure. A track car, hell no.

 

[Audio79]

I text drove three from 2 different dealer and they let me drive the car know I'm not buying from them

 

[ChicagoShogun]

Bro that is a great write up, appreciate the response.

I feel exact same about my M4, even after tuned. The DCT is fun but it gets dull after a while. The power is great but it gets dull after a while. There is really no driving pleasure anymore other than looking at the car because it's one of the best looking M car next to the M8.

I drove a 2018 Macan GTS and SQ5 back to back and I feel like you really aren't missing much. Obviously the Macan is RWD bias vs SQ5 being more FWD, so the Macan is more agile and sporty. A 21 cpo sq5 is 20k less (about 35-40k dollar) than a 21 cpo Macan (about 55-60k dollar) at the same mileage (about 30-40k miles), I can't justify spending 20k more and having the pay Porsche tax on maintenance.

I really like the design of ITS, I have been appreciate Acura design since the new TLX. I'm really just in between if I want more luxury and comfort do it all daily like the SQ5 or do I want another exciting sport sedan. BMW design has been god awful since the new G8x, that's what really make me appreciate my F82. I love the way my car looks but just not the driving pleasure anymore.

Alvin - I got into my ITS in August and won't ever go back. I came from a 2020 C8 Stingray, but have been driving manuals for decades, big V8 power and turbo 4s. My kids drive little Honda Fits and I got to drive those and really appreaciated the just simple fun and tossability of the things. Whip it into gear and it goes. And it made me long for the fun of light, nimble cars that I started to give up with the Camaros and Corvettes of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I loved that C8. But it felt a bit sterile. Fast and a fabulous handler, but big and not that fun. Put it on the highway and set it at 90 and it was like a private jet for the road. But in the corners and on the track, a little lacking in excitement.

I got to test drive the ITS and I was immediately sold. Quick as hell... you could really feel it. Telepathic steering. Put it into a corner and the intensity of the Gs literally made me feel queasy (it goes away with time). I loved it! It is light, fun, and handles like a dream. Maybe not the rotational ease a mid-enging Corvette has, but it is there and you can access it. Other than a tiny amount of torque steer in few siutations, it feels a lot like a rear-drive without as much of a concern of oversteer.

So hope that helps. I don't miss 495hp and 2.8 sec 0-60 times. I feel every bit if not more of the excitement. Like Optronix said, you don't need all that power to have fun. A lot of power can be fun, and believe me you'll feel that power in the ITS along with other great driving feelings!

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