Post Your Firsthand Thoughts on Dealer Demo Integra Type-S

[Lflouie]

The problem with both the F87 and G87 is that they're German muscle cars. For simplicity's sake, what I mean by that is that the character of the cars and how they engage with the driver is more about brute force than delicate balance. If you like that kind of thing, you can deal with the "numb" inputs, because cars like the CTR and ITS can't match the sliding around, power oversteer stuff people like to do in those cars.

As much fun as I had sliding around on wet pavement at the BMW Performance Center when I went a couple years ago, I'm just not about that type of driving. At all, ever. I'll never get sideways on the street, I'll never take a car I drive every day to a drift event, and I'll never drive that irresponsibly at a "normal" track event like an HPDE. It's just not the experience I prefer from a driver's car.

So for me, that's why I've been able to justify the Porsches (especially the mid-engine cars). You almost can't make a mid-engine Porsche go sideways, by design, and that's fine with me. I appreciate the attention placed on precision, and as a byproduct the emphasis placed on inputs. As I mentioned earlier, that's what really stood out to me, is the ITS comes closer than I thought could be possible to matching what I've come to expect out of Porsche- at a $50k price point. Which I'll mention again is significantly less than half the MSRP of my 718, so the ITS to me is a steal and I'm thrilled that it exists. (I still won't be paying markup out of sheer principal... but I feel that others in my situation might not give a shit and just pay it to have one immediately. I know at least one person with an SF90 that did just that for a CTR...)

Back to the G87 vs the F87, is that while the G87 is an objectively better performing car, it took a step backwards from a driver engagement perspective. It's one of those "intangibles" arguments that reminds me a bit of when the 718 was first revealed and it had a *gasp* 4 cylinder. Objectively better engine, by a significant margin over the flat 6 in the 981... but most Porsche people railed against it because it changed the character of the car. Not apples to apples but relevant IMO.

I won't get too much into styling because that's subjective and supremely polarized for this car in particular- but it's a similar story. Generally, people tended to really like the design of the F87. The G87 is a step backwards for let's just say most people, including myself. I kind of like the G87, but not as much as the F87.

I couldn't agree more about driving style and street use. Having owned numerous performance cars including four M, one 911, 2 STI and a Focus RS, I much prefer the buttoned down precise handling of a well setup car. Drifting, sliding, over steering is simply not my style. Granted I will never race or even track my car, so exceptional handling and grip on the street is paramount.

I have no real need for the best 0-60 times, but great mid-range power, ability to carry speed into a corner and good exit speed (grip and power) are the characteristics most important to me.

I like a well setup turbo 4cyl with AWD ( or in the case of the RS, an on-demand AWD) with a capable suspension. Since I never drive aggressively in inclement weather and never in snow or sub-zero temps, the AWD capabilities are over-kill for 99% of my driving. Yes it is a great "safety net" and aids full power corner exit grip and benefits of a vectoring rear dif.

The write-ups tend to "ding" the ITS front wheel drive confiquration for slower flat out acceleration from zero mph and some torque steer and wheel hop during hard accelerating out of tight corners. Once again, these are really not the way I drive, especially on the street.

My Focus RS was more like the CTR, as delivered from the factory. After softening the suspension setup and balancing the chassis with springs, shocks and swaybars, the RS was tuned for aggressive street driving....and probably a middle ground between the ITS and CTR.

The fact that the ITS is biased towards performance street driving on a set of 4 (square setup) 265 grippy tires, an expanded track width front and rear, and the trick front suspension design puts this car very high on my want list.

Sponsored

 

[VT Skier]

Yesterday I drove the ITS and it's a great driver's car. Powertrain, suspension, brakes, just killer. Terrific feel on the clutch and gear shift. Shifting in the Cadillac CT4-V BW is good, but Honda/Acura is better. And you really have to be pushing hard to feel any torque steer, which is remarkable.

Cheap and noisy inside, more Honda than Acura, but that's about what I expected. And I've owned five Accords, an RL and an RLX.

Great daily driver, and $16K cheaper than my BMW M2 build. I know, not one of the benchmark cars Acura used, but that's the only other "practical" manual for everyday use given that the CT4-V didn't do anything for me.

The M2 is superior in almost every way, and should be for the money. And it will also cost much more to own and maintain. For me, the ITS is the more practical, and still lots of fun, daily driver.

 

[optronix]

The F87 and G87 are different cars. The G87 brings a level of composure, precision, and linearity of power delivery not present in the F87. I wouldn’t call it a muscle car, though it is quite powerful for its class. It is this new “composure” that some F87 vets are calling “lack of engagement”. I’ve owned an F87 Competition and, after lots of miles in the G87, don’t agree with that.

And, driving them back to back, I struggle to find anything about the subjective elements of the driving experience that the ITS does better for me other than shifter feel (steering feel is similarly numb). Have you had a chance to drive a G87?

No, as I mentioned it's not on my radar, and neither is the F87 for that matter. Primarily due to the doors. I'll admit I'm going off reviews, where I get the overall sense that it's still a great and engaging car, but as you said "different" from the car it replaces. I was one of those who wanted an evolution in the M2, not a revolution. Basically, I was expecting an F87 with better inputs, and all I got was a faster car- which I don't care about at this point in my enthusiast life cycle. As a result, I don't have any interest in driving a G87. That's ok though, because I'm not the target demographic for that car so it's not like the negative press "lost a customer"...

I think there's some cognitive dissonance going on with "steering feel", and maybe it's coming from me, I honestly can't tell anymore. Personally, I don't like BMW steering feel, never have. And there is a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS distinction between M cars and the rest of the brand... Not as bad as Audi (which is just a hair above Lexus), but I like Porsche steering and the limited time I had behind the wheel of the Acura (I actually don't like the change in "weighting" between the driving modes, I'll have to get used to that...). Others will say the opposite. I've heard actually several people say the steering in modern Porsche electric racks is "numb", and I don't agree with that whatsoever. For example, in no context of reality would I agree that the hydraulic steering rack in my STI was better than any 981, 991, or 982 Porsche sports car. I'd argue the steering in my Macan is on par with any of the cars we're discussing. The closest I could get to liking steering in a BMW is the CS, and honestly I was turned off by the actual steering wheel being obnoxiously, distractingly thick. And I have relatively big hands...

Also the more I think about your driving impressions, there's probably a far different use case going on here. I don't know how you're driving when you "push a car hard" on a test drive... I can't honestly imagine a scenario I'd get anywhere near a position where I'd feel legitimate understeer while driving on the street. I'm not one of those guys who has to go into the West Virginia mountains to get my kicks because I need to go triple digit speeds around blind corners. And I look at my track excursions as just an opportunity to safely and legally go faster than the posted speed limit; I'm not trying to set any records or compete for FTD. The Integra should do just fine for me for the next few years until I can get back in a Porsche.

I'll mention again that this would be a more relevant discussion for me if I didn't have a 4 door requirement. But I still think even then I'd be looking more at an F87 than a G87. I think also the G87s are going to depreciate heavily, especially once the new CS comes around which I expect will "fix" many of the gripes people have about the "base" G87.

 

[Lflouie]

I was planning to test drive one today but the weather turned rainy so rescheduled.

Initial observations on my walk-around:

Styling: Overall it is a nice cohesive design and visually appears smaller (even in white) than I was expecting. While I like the body styling and find it more appealing than the CTR, the rear end comes across as "over designed". While the rear is certainly distinctive, featuring the triple exhausts, it is clearly the part of the car that leans more towards the "flashy side" of the overall car.......not bad, just a greater departure from the more subtle design changes on the rest of the car.

Fit: overall the panel gaps and construction is similar to the other Integras. Not exceptional, not bad, but acceptable with some inconsistencies at the bumper to body and hood to bumper junctions. Doors and trunk were better, hood didn't seem to fit flush at the corners.

Paint: this is the single biggest let down, although it is not appreciably worse than the rest of Maryville produced cars.

As you can see in the pics there is a clear visual difference in color and metallic paint content resulting both the front and rear bumpers accentuating the panel and bumper finish inconsistencies. This is not something I've seen on a CTR which are made in Japan.

Ironically when you simply look at the sides of the car from a standing position and without moving, the difference is less noticeable. However, walking around the car, or when the car drives past the bumpers appear to be "repainted". This is something that Marysville simply hasn't been able or willing to address over the past 10 yrs. Many other sub $35k cars seem to be able to match their paint on body and bumper, but Acura Marysville has not.

Fortunately the work around is to choose a darker color ( black, red, blue) where the mis-match is less obvious.

Interior: I like the design and layout of the dash, seat and pedal placement, it clearly is not as upscale as the Germans (materials quality, design, fit and finish) but it is consistent with the overall positioning of the Integra.

The seats are comfortable but unspectcular. The single lumber setting is ok, but limited. The lack of any side bolster adjustments or more bolstering overall makes it a "meh" but reasonably comfortable daily ....although I haven't had any time to actual drive it yet for a full on experience.

Interfaces: the steering wheel and shifter placement are very natural feeling. The shifter throws are smooth, but felt they would be even better if shortened. I didn't care for the titanium option shift know bc it felt undersized and to small for my hand. The stk knob may help..

Wheels: I like the design of the stk wheels but the copper option wheels are a subtle but distinctive visual upgrade that makes the car look special. The dark stk wheels get lost within the other design elements and blend in, copper pops but compliments the car without being overbearing.

Looking forward to actual drive.

 

[optronix]

I was planning to test drive one today but the weather turned rainy so rescheduled.

Initial observations on my walk-around:

Styling: Overall it is a nice cohesive design and visually appears smaller (even in white) than I was expecting. While I like the body styling and find it more appealing than the CTR, the rear end comes across as "over designed". While the rear is certainly distinctive, featuring the triple exhausts, it is clearly the part of the car that leans more towards the "flashy side" of the overall car.......not bad, just a greater departure from the more subtle design changes on the rest of the car.

Fit: overall the panel gaps and construction is similar to the other Integras. Not exceptional, not bad, but acceptable with some inconsistencies at the bumper to body and hood to bumper junctions. Doors and trunk were better, hood didn't seem to fit flush at the corners.

Paint: this is the single biggest let down, although it is not appreciably worse than the rest of Maryville produced cars.

As you can see in the pics there is a clear visual difference in color and metallic paint content resulting both the front and rear bumpers accentuating the panel and bumper finish inconsistencies. This is not something I've seen on a CTR which are made in Japan.

Ironically when you simply look at the sides of the car from a standing position and without moving, the difference is less noticeable. However, walking around the car, or when the car drives past the bumpers appear to be "repainted". This is something that Marysville simply hasn't been able or willing to address over the past 10 yrs. Many other sub $35k cars seem to be able to match their paint on body and bumper, but Acura Marysville has not.

Fortunately the work around is to chose a darker color ( black, red, blue) where the mis-match is less obvious.

Interior: I like the design and layout of the dash, seat and pedal placement, it clearly is not as upscale as the Germans (materials quality, design, fit and finish) but it is consistent with the overall positioning of the Integra.

The seats are comfortable but unspectcular. The single lumber setting is ok, but limited. The lack of any side bolster adjustments or more bolstering overall makes it a "meh" but reasonably comfortable daily ....although I haven't had any time to actual drive it yet for a full on experience.

Interfaces: the steering wheel and shifter placement are very natural feeling. The shifter throws are smooth, but felt they would be even better if shortened. I didn't care for the titanium option shift know bc it felt undersized and to small for my hand. The stk knob may help..

Wheels: I like the design of the stk wheels but the copper option wheels are a subtle but distinctive visual upgrade that makes the car look special. The dark stk wheels get lost within the other design elements and blend in, copper pops but compliments the car without being overbearing.

Looking forward to actual drive.

Yeah I think the QA stuff is going to be a persistent thing with these cars. It's only really apparent if you look for it. Maybe it's worse than other cars, but honestly it's not something I think I would have even noticed had others not explicitly called it out. I thought it would be an issue for me, but I've come to the conclusion I can look past it.

I still like it in white but if the timeline is acceptable for a red one I think I may go that direction.

 

[Lflouie]

Yeah I think the QA stuff is going to be a persistent thing with these cars. It's only really apparent if you look for it. Maybe it's worse than other cars, but honestly it's not something I think I would have even noticed had others not explicitly called it out. I thought it would be an issue for me, but I've come to the conclusion I can look past it.

I still like it in white but if the timeline is acceptable for a red one I think I may go that direction.

Clearly fit and finish issues have no bearing on the design, performance, nor functionality of the ITS. It is a great and seemingly well executed hot hatch/ liftback.

A $44k msrp CTR made in Japan does NOT have these issues. Same platform, similar body panels, different assembly plant location. Let's give a nod to Japanese product quality mfg standards vs the US. Also most US customers are less demanding than the typical Japanese customer when it comes to fit and finish....just check out a sub-$40k GM, Ford or Jeep built here.

In my case, paint and fit are equally important to the pride of ownership as the capabilities of the car. A good looking car that doesn't meet my performance needs is a let down every time I explore it's capabilities, while a poor looking car that performs well disappoints me all the time I'm not fully exploiting the performance...and everytime I approach or leave the car. In this case the CTR is a more satisfying combination...although more biased to the track, but very useable as a wkend driver.⁸

Granted the ITS is not a disaster on fit and finish, the paint mis-match is noticeable enough that if I do buy one with my deposit it will be a dark color.

For those (and there will be many) that could care less about the fit and finish, I think that any color ITS will be an enjoyable and fun street performance car with a great demeanor and relative exclusivity.

 

[SpencerDawgg]

This is coming from an 04 RSX Type-S owner!

Just finished a test drive with a demo in Marietta, GA and man that car is special. Last year around this time I test drove an A-Spec Tech with the 6 speed and was unimpressed with the driving dynamics and preferred my RSX. I think it’s a good choice for many, but it was not what I was looking for in an upgrade.

This car feels better in every way. I went in expecting to be a little disappointed in the steering and road feel but I was very surprised at just how close it felt to driving an enthusiast car from the early late 90s/00s. The inputs were great and the exhaust was even better. I love that it doesn’t constantly pop and bang to the point where it is obnoxious.

I expected the power to feel a lot better than my car, but I was again taken off guard at just how much there was in the mid range. I was told by the salesperson that someone already bought the demo so I kept it under 4.5k for their sake, but it never felt sluggish and just kept pulling

The shifter feel and clutch were great, but I did notice a little bit of rev hang when really rowing through the gears.

All in all, this is a close to perfect evolution of the last sport compact Type-S model with a 6 speed. Now it’s time to spend the next year saving every penny to buy one

 

[Needs3Pedals]

someone already bought the demo so I kept it under 4.5k for their sake

The universe will reward you for this.

When you get one, let me know and I’ll drive over from Athens so we can kick off the north Georgia ITS club.

 

[SpencerDawgg]

The universe will reward you for this.

When you get one, let me know and I’ll drive over from Athens so we can kick off the north Georgia ITS club.

Haha for sure

 

[bpebler]

I finally had the chance to test drive the demo this afternoon. I really appreciate the feedback on those here who have commented with experience with multiple types of vehicles & can compare them to brands like say, Porsche. I might even appreciate that feedback more than the lengthy reviews we've watched from Monday! They compliment each other very well.

I can only echo the positive things that has been mentioned repeatedly. Smooth all around, good sound, comfy seats. Didn't notice any fit & finish issues. Looking forward to finally seeing it in LCM soon. I'm told mine started assembly yesterday alone with others who have reported the same with that color.

 

[ckone2030]

The universe will reward you for this.

When you get one, let me know and I’ll drive over from Athens so we can kick off the north Georgia ITS club.

North GA ITS club sounds like a fun idea. So I have a reservation for the black/black. What color will you, the folks inNorth GA, will buy?

 

[Needs3Pedals]

North GA ITS club sounds like a fun idea. So I have a reservation for the black/black. What color will you, the folks inNorth GA, will buy?

Ive got a reserved blue one being delivered next week to Acura of Athens. I’ve never done any car club stuff (just a lifetime Honda fan) but I’d definitely meet up when I can.

 

[ghost13]

North GA ITS club sounds like a fun idea. So I have a reservation for the black/black. What color will you, the folks inNorth GA, will buy?

Count me in as well. Based on what I heard from the GM at Nalley Acura, I would most likely get mine in March/April next year.
The demo was sold to a gentleman who is a long-time Honda/Acura fanboy.
My first impression:
The Good

• Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder and the ITS looks great. I prefer the liftback/notchback style with wide fenders and the discreet hood vent on the front.
• Excellent ride and handling balance with good grip with those wide tires. I did not push the demo car and one can do only so much spirited driving during a 20-minute test drive. I did drive through city roads and the interstate. It pulls from 2000 rpm effortlessly. I did not go beyond 4k to 5k rpm as it only had 47 miles on it. I can only imagine how this will pull once broken in.
• Feels well-engineered and assembled compared to my 2011 Subaru WRX. This demo won the panel lottery from the Marysville plant. While my WRX launches well, this ITS is a big step above. The K20C1 engine and the gearbox are next levels.
• The seat felt comfortable and well bolstered for me. I'm 6'2" and 165 lbs. I have not sat in the CTR bucket seats and cannot compare. It is good enough for me.
• No torque steer and imperceptible wheel spin. Now I can appreciate the LSD upfront. Every time I give a slight boost in my Camry, the front wheel spin and start to wash out. Every FWD car that produces 200 hp or more must come with an LSD.
• Relatively better availability since ITS is only for Canada and the USA.

The Not Good

• The high price tag. When I bought my WRX in 2011, it was $25k and the STi then was $36k. I was hoping it would be $48k. However, with heated seats that are not red in color, ELS audio, HUD, and the extra 1 year of warranties help.
• Dealer markups are going to be the norm for the ITS as well, though there are more Acura dealers willing to do MSRP compared to Honda dealers doing MSRP.
• Rear fender flares should have been part of the sheet metal and not tacked on.

Cars I am cross-shopping

1. Honda Civic Type R (unlikely I can get one at MSRP. Won't pay markup out of principle)
2. Hyundai Elantra N. Going to test drive this weekend.
3. Subaru WRX I wanted an STi and Subaru stopped making them. Compared to the K20C1, the Subaru engine feels pedestrian.
4. BMW 330i Msport - Great car. However, not exclusive and everyone and their grandma has one.
5. Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce Felt like the old 3 series and a 4-door Miata. Loved it. Concerned Alfa might just close shop, pack their bags and leave in a few years.

 

[evanescent03]

All these people getting to drive the car makes me jealous. My dealer was hardcore on the 19th embargo date. Then my sales guy is out till middle of next week.. I guess I'll have enough content to review that will hold me over. Plus the LCM is still MIA so I doubt it will be ready before July.

are you dealing with Columbia (cinci)? i was told today that the car still isn't ready for test drives. i wonder what's taking them so long.. they've had the car for a week and they must know there are a lot of chomping at the bit to get behind the wheel!

if you're not the columbia guy, i apologize ha!

 

[SpencerDawgg]

North GA ITS club sounds like a fun idea. So I have a reservation for the black/black. What color will you, the folks inNorth GA, will buy?

I think I’m 98% going to want blue to continue the legacy, but I want to see tiger eye and black in person

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