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Head to head comparison: Civic Type R vs. Integra Type S (Throttle House review)
4ourth
Senior Member
This was the best comparison I’ve seen to date. I was actually shocked to see the Type S beat the Type R in a straight line (all publications seem to indicate that the Type S is 2/10 s slower) AND that it matched the Type R track time.
BlackCTR
Senior Member
I'm not shocked at all. Jonathan Rivers kept trying to explain this to every reviewer he rode with but they weren't paying him any attention and it went straight over their heads. I knew this car was going to be faster. The torque is simply in the right places along with everything else you get. It's a very special car. Probably not going to make very many of them. They planned for like 3600 a year and they're having trouble getting those to dealerships.
I could be wrong. But I think the low vin models may dyno with higher hp numbers. I could immediately tell a difference in power and grip when compared to my Type R.
I'm willing to bet this car is going to be a great tuning platform. Maybe even better than the ctr. The engine just runs smoother on revs, it's got an aggressive idle in my opinion which U like.
Luckily I haven't had or experienced any issues like other people have with rattles and such. Mine so far is very well put together. Everything feels very tight and crisp. I've got a cool vin number too. Last 3 numbers are 111 lol. Talk about a rare vin.
But anyway. I don't think this car will disappoint anyone. And in my opinion after owning 2 CTR's since 2017. The ITS feels like it's made better overall.
No one ever talks about the brake cooling this car has either. Which is very important to me in a sports car. I wish I was driving it right now lol but I've got to work tomorrow.
ZeroGSR
Senior Member
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Have you filled up with 91 yet or are you running 93? What I would like to see is a 91 dyno run to see how much of a difference it makes. My gut says it's a very mild 93 tune and should be fine at 91 before you hit heat soak/high ambient temps, but it could also really just come down to octane. SG said the dyno was on 93 I am guessing Throttle House did the same.
These reviews are starting to feel a little too much like reading off the dealer literature though. This was the 3rd or 4th review I have watched where they say "the suspension is the same sans ADS" and I don't know if that is true. The rear springs are NOT the same part # and for some reason Honda has 2 different front spring part #s for the FL5. One is the same, one is not. Time will tell, but if it's really just an ADS swap away for track days, that will be a huge boon to both cars! Now to find a FL5 seat to swap in for track days as well
These reviews are starting to feel a little too much like reading off the dealer literature though. This was the 3rd or 4th review I have watched where they say "the suspension is the same sans ADS" and I don't know if that is true. The rear springs are NOT the same part # and for some reason Honda has 2 different front spring part #s for the FL5. One is the same, one is not. Time will tell, but if it's really just an ADS swap away for track days, that will be a huge boon to both cars! Now to find a FL5 seat to swap in for track days as well
BlackCTR
Senior Member
My ITS feels just as stiff as my Type R did in Sport+ compared to R+.Have you filled up with 91 yet or are you running 93? What I would like to see is a 91 dyno run to see how much of a difference it makes. My gut says it's a very mild 93 tune and should be fine at 91 before you hit heat soak/high ambient temps, but it could also really just come down to octane. SG said the dyno was on 93 I am guessing Throttle House did the same.
These reviews are starting to feel a little too much like reading off the dealer literature though. This was the 3rd or 4th review I have watched where they say "the suspension is the same sans ADS" and I don't know if that is true. The rear springs are NOT the same part # and for some reason Honda has 2 different front spring part #s for the FL5. One is the same, one is not. Time will tell, but if it's really just an ADS swap away for track days, that will be a huge boon to both cars! Now to find a FL5 seat to swap in for track days as well
My personal opinion ofcourse. And as stated before I've owned a 2017 FK8 and a 2020 FK8.
I will say that the ITS is slightly more comfortable and a tad more compliant on the road but it's not a huge difference at all.
All I have ever ran is 93 in these cars. I wouldn't run anything else especially with them being turbo. I could clearly tell a difference if I used a subpar gas station. So I strictly stuck with 93 octane and soley use Shell Gas. I've seemed to get the best performance from their gas. I couldn't imagine running anything less than 93. I wish we had 95 octane as an option. But unfortunately we don't.
I can't wait to run Hondata, intercooler, intake, downpipe and front pipe. I'm sure it will increase the exhaust sound, open it up a little more and definitely make more power once tuned.
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BlackCTR
Senior Member
Forgot to mention. It's consistently been 95+ degrees in Florida and so far I haven't experienced heatsoak yet with it. My FK8 experienced heat soak on EVERY SINGLE DRIVE. The power has remained consistent regardless of temperature. I'm sure it will probably be slightly more responsive on a cold night. So far I'm very impressed with the airflow and cooling they have developed for the car.
optronix
Senior Member
I've been waiting since embargo day for Throttle House to weigh in. They were the last piece of my personal YouTube data collection process to fully assess a car's "true enthusiast worth". They're definitely one of my favorite channels and I value their opinions dearly- but don't necessarily agree all the time.
As I've maintained since before driving impressions embargoes were lifted, the only perceivable difference to me from a track capabilities perspective are the seats.
I noticed the comment above about the springs being a different part number, and that is interesting- but every publication including what came from Acura insists that the spring rates, roll bars, all the hardware is the same as the Type R. Weight virtually the same- ~40lbs comes down to different drivers. My brother driving a Type R and me in an ITS would give me an advantage in weight lol (I'm allowed to fat shame if he's my brother). Power has been proven time and again to be an advantage to the ITS... any instrumented test that suggests the Type R is somehow faster could easily attributed to different test conditions, or bad launches. It's hard to launch a FWD car, especially with high horsepower. That will be a consistent theme with these cars, which is why I NEVER EVER was interested in drag racing front-wheel drive cars. A fool's errand... although I will have to learn how to launch this car effectively because it is important to get a good start in autocross.
Thomas pretty much confirms my take, despite his best efforts to convince us otherwise. He repeatedly states "but the Type R is better suited to the track", but doesn't substantiate that and then goes on to talk about how badly he was jostled around in the Type R on their track. Which brings me to another point. I think I did a good job articulating this in another thread so I'll quote myself here:
I just LOVE what this video is doing to the FL5 guys now. It's official, those guys drive me nuts. There's no reason for them to be so salty- oh, besides the fact that in their own minds they've convinced themselves the CTR is god's gift to the automotive industry because it has a numbered plate on the dash and they paid $15k ADM- but seriously, the incessant bickering and nonsense about how "special" the CTR is that the ITS is not has finally worn me down.
So to have Throttle House come in with the exact same lap time, after a punishing drag race from both a dig and a roll vs an FL5 (with an aftermarket exhaust...
) was like, the perfect outcome. It should be widely accepted that both cars are equal and it comes down to a matter of individual preference. There is no "superior". It is coke vs pepsi. Two sides of the same coin. People just have to convince themselves and by proxy, everyone they have an opportunity to communicate with that they made the right decision. It's embarrassing.
Yeah I would like to see it too but Nürburgring makes no sense in this car, especially considering the marketing.
As I've maintained since before driving impressions embargoes were lifted, the only perceivable difference to me from a track capabilities perspective are the seats.
I noticed the comment above about the springs being a different part number, and that is interesting- but every publication including what came from Acura insists that the spring rates, roll bars, all the hardware is the same as the Type R. Weight virtually the same- ~40lbs comes down to different drivers. My brother driving a Type R and me in an ITS would give me an advantage in weight lol (I'm allowed to fat shame if he's my brother). Power has been proven time and again to be an advantage to the ITS... any instrumented test that suggests the Type R is somehow faster could easily attributed to different test conditions, or bad launches. It's hard to launch a FWD car, especially with high horsepower. That will be a consistent theme with these cars, which is why I NEVER EVER was interested in drag racing front-wheel drive cars. A fool's errand... although I will have to learn how to launch this car effectively because it is important to get a good start in autocross.
Thomas pretty much confirms my take, despite his best efforts to convince us otherwise. He repeatedly states "but the Type R is better suited to the track", but doesn't substantiate that and then goes on to talk about how badly he was jostled around in the Type R on their track. Which brings me to another point. I think I did a good job articulating this in another thread so I'll quote myself here:
I think the ITS actually has an advantage on Throttle House's track, which looks like something you'd see in a documentary of abandoned cold-war era Soviet military bases.me in another thread said:
I just LOVE what this video is doing to the FL5 guys now. It's official, those guys drive me nuts. There's no reason for them to be so salty- oh, besides the fact that in their own minds they've convinced themselves the CTR is god's gift to the automotive industry because it has a numbered plate on the dash and they paid $15k ADM- but seriously, the incessant bickering and nonsense about how "special" the CTR is that the ITS is not has finally worn me down.
So to have Throttle House come in with the exact same lap time, after a punishing drag race from both a dig and a roll vs an FL5 (with an aftermarket exhaust...
) was like, the perfect outcome. It should be widely accepted that both cars are equal and it comes down to a matter of individual preference. There is no "superior". It is coke vs pepsi. Two sides of the same coin. People just have to convince themselves and by proxy, everyone they have an opportunity to communicate with that they made the right decision. It's embarrassing.
BlackCTR
Senior Member
The ITS is still the better car end of story lol.I've been waiting since embargo day for Throttle House to weigh in. They were the last piece of my personal YouTube data collection process to fully assess a car's "true enthusiast worth". They're definitely one of my favorite channels and I value their opinions dearly- but don't necessarily agree all the time.
Yeah I would like to see it too but Nürburgring makes no sense in this car, especially considering the marketing.
As I've maintained since before driving impressions embargoes were lifted, the only perceivable difference to me from a track capabilities perspective are the seats.
I noticed the comment above about the springs being a different part number, and that is interesting- but every publication including what came from Acura insists that the spring rates, roll bars, all the hardware is the same as the Type R. Weight virtually the same- ~40lbs comes down to different drivers. My brother driving a Type R and me in an ITS would give me an advantage in weight lol (I'm allowed to fat shame if he's my brother). Power has been proven time and again to be an advantage to the ITS... any instrumented test that suggests the Type R is somehow faster could easily attributed to different test conditions, or bad launches. It's hard to launch a FWD car, especially with high horsepower. That will be a consistent theme with these cars, which is why I NEVER EVER was interested in drag racing front-wheel drive cars. A fool's errand... although I will have to learn how to launch this car effectively because it is important to get a good start in autocross.
Thomas pretty much confirms my take, despite his best efforts to convince us otherwise. He repeatedly states "but the Type R is better suited to the track", but doesn't substantiate that and then goes on to talk about how badly he was jostled around in the Type R on their track. Which brings me to another point. I think I did a good job articulating this in another thread so I'll quote myself here:
I think the ITS actually has an advantage on Throttle House's track, which looks like something you'd see in a documentary of abandoned cold-war era Soviet military bases.
I just LOVE what this video is doing to the FL5 guys now. It's official, those guys drive me nuts. There's no reason for them to be so salty- oh, besides the fact that in their own minds they've convinced themselves the CTR is god's gift to the automotive industry because it has a numbered plate on the dash and they paid $15k ADM- but seriously, the incessant bickering and nonsense about how "special" the CTR is that the ITS is not has finally worn me down.
So to have Throttle House come in with the exact same lap time, after a punishing drag race from both a dig and a roll vs an FL5 (with an aftermarket exhaust...
raisedhaze
Senior Member
But the seats! A track enthusiast never changes seats in their track car! (Sarcasm)
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optronix
Senior Member
As it should be, it's $7k more.
Personally it is a complete push for me. I'd be happy to buy a CTR at MSRP because I think ~$7k is an adequate discount and what's ultimately important to me (driving dynamics) would still be there.
But the Acura easily provides enough justification for those who prefer it- which I do, slightly.
To me, you can't "lose" this debate with either car. The only losers are the ones who feel like they have to defend their choice with arbitrary assignments like "it's more special".
raisedhaze
Senior Member
Or those that opt not to get one because they think performance cars can't be FWD, Overpriced civic, etc.To me, you can't "lose" this debate with either car. The only losers are the ones who feel like they have to defend their choice with arbitrary assignments like "it's more special".
This car checks all of the boxes for me, though AWD would have been a big plus for year round duty.
optronix
Senior Member
Yeah that's another conversation, there will always be detractors because of whatever preferences (or psychosis) an individual has. Personally, I don't go on Camaro forums to trash the fact you can't see out of them, or even Tesla forums to trash the fact that they exist. I wish that was universal but for whatever reason people just like to trash things others enjoy.
raisedhaze
Senior Member
I've ridden and drove in fast camaros, mustangs, and a Model S plaid. No hate from me on any of those. Different animals, but I obviously bought the ITS over those for a few reasons.
slo_its
Senior Member
First, I think let's all be glad we have two great options in this day and age, however hard it is to obtain.
Second, I frequent CTR forums even after getting my ITS because I know there are people still cross shopping cus CTR is so hard to get, and also, there are mods they're doing already or future aftermarket parts that likely transfers over. I think it's important to share experiences between the two forums given the two cars share so many things. After all, the larger driver base of the two combined will just get more aftermarket support which we can all enjoy.
Hopefully no one is intentionally writing on one forum or another about how their CTR is better than ITS or vice versa. But I think it's also very natural for people to be doing that without knowing it, to reassure of them selves that they made the right decision. I catch myself doing that too. Most just don't want buyers remorse.
Back to the original topic though, loved seeing those results. It's what I expected to see, with CTR slightly better with handling and ITS slightly better on the straight. And I think CTR will do better on a smoother track. However...dk tsuchiya did test the CTR in Japan and was very clear on how he found the CTR to be too firm in +R on a track that was much better. He liked it much better with suspension down one notch. Either way, depending on people's preferences, the parts swap-ability will be a lot of fun. People are already swapping Accord rear view mirror with home link and dimming into the CTR and it's plug and play. I really do want to get rid of the crappy garage door opener I have...lol
Second, I frequent CTR forums even after getting my ITS because I know there are people still cross shopping cus CTR is so hard to get, and also, there are mods they're doing already or future aftermarket parts that likely transfers over. I think it's important to share experiences between the two forums given the two cars share so many things. After all, the larger driver base of the two combined will just get more aftermarket support which we can all enjoy.
Hopefully no one is intentionally writing on one forum or another about how their CTR is better than ITS or vice versa. But I think it's also very natural for people to be doing that without knowing it, to reassure of them selves that they made the right decision. I catch myself doing that too. Most just don't want buyers remorse.
Back to the original topic though, loved seeing those results. It's what I expected to see, with CTR slightly better with handling and ITS slightly better on the straight. And I think CTR will do better on a smoother track. However...dk tsuchiya did test the CTR in Japan and was very clear on how he found the CTR to be too firm in +R on a track that was much better. He liked it much better with suspension down one notch. Either way, depending on people's preferences, the parts swap-ability will be a lot of fun. People are already swapping Accord rear view mirror with home link and dimming into the CTR and it's plug and play. I really do want to get rid of the crappy garage door opener I have...lol
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