A Spare Tire That Fits Under the Load Floor

[vexingv]

It seems you're describing the Acura RL nuts...

so are the Acura RL lug nuts a better option altogether (as compared to flat flanged nuts with or without jam nuts)?

also question about jam nuts as i dont have any experience, but these jam nuts go on after the flanged nuts are torqued and are they themselves torqued to some spec as well?

Sponsored

 

[bandit81]

If the Acura RL used the same lug nuts the SD Ford trucks did, then yes. The washer portion appears independent of the nut. I ordered a set of 5 and will confirm later this week when they arrive.

 

[bandit81]

Dorman 611246 is the F-250 flange lug nut part number.

I also found some Gorilla lug nut washers that may work as well, that part number is 79916 (found on Jegs and Summit Racing). This washer would allow for a conical lug nut, Gorilla part number 70048.

Options!

 

[Frenzal]

Check the other spare tire thread, where I explain the RL spare. I posted pics of the lugs in that thread.

 

[vexingv]

Check the other spare tire thread, where I explain the RL spare. I posted pics of the lugs in that thread.

i reviewed your photos of that lug nut in the other thread....any chance you have a part number? or what year RL tire does that spare belong to? checking a 2012 RL on Dream Shop, i found the part number 90304-SJA-A91. however, in looking at photos from various stores, it doesn't seem to have that flange. this other nut 90304-SHJ-A91 seems like it has the flange

 

[bandit81]

That RL lug nut would not work. GM had a similar design for aluminum wheels in the 70's-80's. If folks curious, the Trans Am snowflake wheels used a flat seat, but the spare used the 60*, like that lug it it can be used for an RL spare or RL aluminum wheel. This specific application you need a flat only lug nut. Btw those wheels required a hub for centering, so definitely order the hub centric rings mentioned in this thread.

Fun fact, aftermarket snowflake wheels used the 60*.

Love to know why Honda went conical rather than the standard 60*.

 

[bandit81]

I got the Dorman 611246 lug nuts, they are perfect for this situation.

Each lug nut is 2 piece, the washer has ribbed spots along the face that goes against the wheel which will act as a "lock washer". The nut pivots against the washer.

Parts list

• Dorman 611246 lug nuts (from a 2006 F-250 Super Duty), quantity: 5
• Wheel BMW 36116758778 (17x4), has a center bore of 72.6mm.
• Spare Tire 115/95R17 (Continental sContact 115/95R17 recommended)
• Hub centering ring 64.1mm to 72.6mm (pick aluminum instead of plastic)

Tools

• Step drill bit - for widening holes on the wheel to 9/16

Instructions

1. Buy the parts listed above
2. Modify the wheel's the lug nut holes to 9/16" diameter (do this before mounting a tire to it, that way you do not have to get the wheel re-balanced)
3. Test mount wheel on your car to verify fit with hub centric rings and lug nuts
4. Take wheel and tire to get mounted and balanced (plan on buying a valve stem at the tire center you pick)
5. Final test mount wheel with tire mounted to car. No need to test drive but you could.

Note: When tightening lug nuts for steel wheels, torque to 84 ft lbs (mentioned in this thread) or 85 ft lbs for simplicity. Steel does not compress like aluminum which is why the torque amount is different. According to Tire Rack 14x1.5M should be between 85-90 ft lbs unless stated otherwise by factory. Factory Type-S wheels should be torqued to 94 ft lbs for reference. Torque wrenches can be off by +/- 3%, don't over think this like I am now writing this.

Note 2: Normal wheels do not need the hub centric rings, but it is still good practice to use them so you are 100% sure the wheel is centered on the hub/axle. In this situation you MUST USE A HUB CENTRIC RING as the lug nuts will not center the wheel.

 

[Frenzal]

i reviewed your photos of that lug nut in the other thread....any chance you have a part number? or what year RL tire does that spare belong to? checking a 2012 RL on Dream Shop, i found the part number 90304-SJA-A91. however, in looking at photos from various stores, it doesn't seem to have that flange. this other nut 90304-SHJ-A91 seems like it has the flange

Think you don't need the info anymore... If you still do, I asked lug nuts for an Acura RL at a part store. Girl went in back, brought those back and they fitted the RL spare I have. I don't have anymore info sadly.

 

[bandit81]

Ahh the RL spare wheel is different from the BMW wheel, different situation. You most likely do not need to drill out the lug nut holes for the RL spare wheel.

 

[vexingv]

I got the Dorman 611246 lug nuts, they are perfect for this situation.

Each lug nut is 2 piece, the washer has ribbed spots along the face that goes against the wheel which will act as a "lock washer". The nut pivots against the washer.

Parts list

• Dorman 611246 lug nuts (from a 2006 F-250 Super Duty), quantity: 5
• Wheel BMW 36116758778 (17x4), has a center bore of 72.6mm.
• Spare Tire 115/95R17 (Continental sContact 115/95R17 recommended)
• Hub centering ring 64.1mm to 72.6mm (pick aluminum instead of plastic)

Tools

• Step drill bit - for widening holes on the wheel to 9/16

Instructions

1. Buy the parts listed above
2. Modify the wheel's the lug nut holes to 9/16" diameter (do this before mounting a tire to it, that way you do not have to get the wheel re-balanced)
3. Test mount wheel on your car to verify fit with hub centric rings and lug nuts
4. Take wheel and tire to get mounted and balanced (plan on buying a valve stem at the tire center you pick)
5. Final test mount wheel with tire mounted to car. No need to test drive but you could.

Note: When tightening lug nuts for steel wheels, torque to 84 ft lbs (mentioned in this thread) or 85 ft lbs for simplicity. Steel does not compress like aluminum which is why the torque amount is different. According to Tire Rack 14x1.5M should be between 85-90 ft lbs unless stated otherwise by factory. Factory Type-S wheels should be torqued to 94 ft lbs for reference. Torque wrenches can be off by +/- 3%, don't over think this like I am now writing this.

Note 2: Normal wheels do not need the hub centric rings, but it is still good practice to use them so you are 100% sure the wheel is centered on the hub/axle. In this situation you MUST USE A HUB CENTRIC RING as the lug nuts will not center the wheel.

Great summary/compilation above, just what I needed.

I am going the BMW spare wheel route so I will need to drill to widen the mounting holes and the appropriate lug nuts. The tire and wheel arrived earlier this week. Good point to drill before mounting and balancing the wheel/tire. I'll get around to the rest of this project next week (just completed a big project to remove the bumper and add a mesh grill in the intercooler opening and to swap the caliper badge for black)

 

[vexingv]

After researching the various step drill bits (thanks to the Project Farm youtube channel/video), I ordered a DeWalt spiral step drill bit as my local Harbor Freight didn't have the good-value Hercules bit in stock. The bit arrived yesterday and I just passed it through the existing holes in the BMW wheel. It seems that the holes are already sized to at least >14mm/9/16th as I was able to pass the drill bit through easily. I have extra 14mm lug bolts from BMW/Mini around too and the bolt passed through the existing holes without any widening/drilling. I checked entry both from the outer wheel side and from the inner/hub side.

So... Should I be drilling wider than 9/16? Next up in size on the bit 5/8th... Are the tolerances for these holes variable such that I shouldn't need to drill it wider? I have yet to test mount the wheel. Although I had initially intended to drill the holes wider prior to mounting the tire to the wheel, I plan on just getting the tire mounted later today at a tire shop given the impending holiday

 

[kjechel]

After researching the various step drill bits (thanks to the Project Farm youtube channel/video), I ordered a DeWalt spiral step drill bit as my local Harbor Freight didn't have the good-value Hercules bit in stock. The bit arrived yesterday and I just passed it through the existing holes in the BMW wheel. It seems that the holes are already sized to at least >14mm/9/16th as I was able to pass the drill bit through easily. I have extra 14mm lug bolts from BMW/Mini around too and the bolt passed through the existing holes without any widening/drilling. I checked entry both from the outer wheel side and from the inner/hub side.

So... Should I be drilling wider than 9/16? Next up in size on the bit 5/8th... Are the tolerances for these holes variable such that I shouldn't need to drill it wider? I have yet to test mount the wheel. Although I had initially intended to drill the holes wider prior to mounting the tire to the wheel, I plan on just getting the tire mounted later today at a tire shop given the impending holiday

As you tighten the flat-faced lug nuts against the raised conical seats of the wheel, the seats will distort (flatten) and the holes will get slightly smaller. If you tighten too much it could distort a seat enough to get locked onto the stud, preventing you from removing the wheel from the hub - a big problem! Re-read this post where I said:

"An alternative is to use M14 x 1.5 Flange Nuts that are flat on the back. In this case the back of the nuts press squarely against the very top of the lug nut seats, pressing them down flat as the nuts are tightened. The closing of the holes around the studs is even more of a concern here, so again DRILL OUT THE BOLT CIRCLE HOLES IN THE WHEELS TO 9/16" (0.562") DIAMETER MINIMUM. Also as described above, remove and re-drill the holes (as necessary) after torquing to 50, then 60, then 70 ft-lbs. "​

So proceed slowly and carefully in small steps at first until you get an idea of how much distortion (and hole diameter reduction) results from a given amount of torque increase. Re-drill as necessary to keep the hole diameters at 9/16" (14.3 mm). Note that's only 0.3 mm (~0.012") bigger than your stud diameter. I would not advise drilling the holes out to 5/8" (15.9 mm) - that's too big IMO.

 

[bandit81]

Yes, you need to make the holes 1/16" bigger so when the flat washer presses onto the wheel the stud threads are not marred/damaged by the metal wheel. If you read the early posts in this thread, that was the original problem with the wheel. It doesn't take much clearance, you are basically making the holes slightly bigger than they already are.

 

[bandit81]

I also agree with @kjechel 5/8" is too big. If they had metric step bits we could be even more precise but 9/16" is actually perfect.

 

[vexingv]

I also agree with @kjechel 5/8" is too big. If they had metric step bits we could be even more precise but 9/16" is actually perfect.

that's the thing. at least with this particular wheel i have, at the 9/16th step -- the drill bit is already through the holes on the wheel at 9/16th step. while i haven't put the bit on the drill itself, at the 9/16th step, i dont think it will widen anything as it's already fully through the hole (on entry from either the outer or inner surface). thus, the next step up on the bit, 1/16th up, would be 10/16th, which is equivalent to 5/8ths (by reduction of fractions...).

i'd only ever seen 9/16 mentioned in this thread so was unsure if it needed to greater, but now i see that @kjechel mentioned "MINIMUM" of 9/16. i understand that the tolerance for 14mm is quite small. unless drill bits with smaller incremental steps exist (1/32 maybe?), the next 1/16th step up is 5/8ths.

as the bore diameters of the BMW wheel and the outer hub are different, necessitating the centering rings, which i have bought, isn't that really what is keep the wheel centered on the hub? the lugs nuts are simply applying a locking force against the hub.

and i have and intend to use those dorman M14x1.5 flat face flanged nuts suggested earlier.

....

actually thinking it over.... maybe i'm trying to do this process too quickly and skipping some intermediary steps (it's going to be >100F outside today...so i was hoping to do the drilling indoors and not have to trial and error mount the wheels in the hot driveway).

i guess, other people have been re-drilling the wheel after the bolt holes have been deformed from torquing on the hub? i can see how the hole diameter could change after deformation. so the wheel bolt hole in my never mounted wheel is already 9/16ths. so must i mount, torque, unmount, drill, torque, drill, check fitting?

i was hoping to just do an initial drill at 9/16th (or 5/8ths if that is what is necessary) and test mount and call it a day.

Sponsored