Summer tires, winter weather

[lumper]

I’m not worried about wearing out the summer tires prematurely, if they go bad fine, I’ll buy new ones. I’m really asking if I’m screwed if I see any bit of snow. All the cars I’ve had in the past all came with all seasons. I also kinda don’t want the hassle of changing tires every winter. Yes that’s me being extremely lazy.

Yes, these tires do not perform well in the cold never mind the cold wet or snow, they are terrible.
Either grab some dedicated snow tires for best winter performance, or get a decent all season.
I went with Continental DWS 06+ 275/35/19 on stock wheels, they grip very well, look excellent and due to the size offer a more compliant ride.

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[ITSandMR2]

Just drove in 1-2 inches of unplowed roads this morning on the DWS's and didn't even slip a tire. If anyone has not looked recently Michelin has the Pilot Alpin 5 available in our factory size now. Here is a link to it on their site granted I am pretty sure they are all sold out for the season. Anything more than about 4 inches and I am just going to use one of my many vacation days and not go anywhere.

 

[bdisco]

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/can-i-drive-summer-performance-tires-in-cold-temperatures

 

[Ktrw]

I think it's foolish to drive through snow, or even those temperatures on PS4S since the temperature limit is 45F, and they're clearly not designed for winter weather with traction being significantly worse. You could also risk damaging the compound/sidewall as temperatures decrease beyond that.

I bit the bullet and got 265/35/19 PSAS4s for use until the temperatures are consistently above 45 again. Also anecdotally, my AS4s have more grip in straight line acceleration in cold and cold/wet conditions. I drove my PS4S briefly in ~45F weather waiting for the tires to come in and I was able to spin them in conditions that the AS4s do not.

Ultimately we all bought the car knowing it comes with straight-up summer tires so if you want to drive it in winter conditions you either accept the risks (potentially to other people around you if you crash), don't drive the car, or buy tires to swap to. It is obviously not a good idea to drive summer tires in the winter though.

 

[us17094]

Not to pile on here (and not sure this point has been made) but another cynical reason for going with AS or winter tires in the cold is the potential that your insurance company would deny covering damage sustained when driving in the winter on summer tires.

 

[SomethingSomething]

I too am annoyed that there is not a low/no cost option for an all season tire like Conti dws06+, as I definitely would have opted for it. I live in the Midwest, don't track my car and those would have been fine. But in buying the car I committed to the expense and hassle of getting dedicated winter tires. It sucks to store and swap them, but when you have to drive in snow, it all seems worth it. I know I could have just immediately swapped the tires for dws06+ and sold the Michelins, but I think I kind of wanted the peace of mind the winter tires provide when you really need them.

I wonder if you went out trying to drive today and that changed your mind at all.

When the summers wear out, I'll probably get dws06+ and still run the winters during the winter.

 

[Type SSSHHH]

Well, the car cover for sure did its job protecting me from the snow. I was able to dig my way out of the snow surrounding my car. My issue now is getting the city to plow the snow out of my hood. There’s just so much. There’s no way I’d make it outta my driveway lol

 

[Type SSSHHH]

Well, I was able to get outta my driveway and took A quick trip around the block. Wasn’t terrible at low speeds. Have an appointment Thursday for PS4 A/S in 265/35/19. That was all they had available. Gonna take it easy driving to work next the few nights going to work. Thanks for everyone’s help, suggestions and feedback.

 

[s219]

I have several cars with summer tires and don't really worry down to about 35-40F as long as the roads are dry. A key factor is how the car is stored; mine are kept inside a garage that stays 55-60F so the tires start out warm and will stay fairly warm (my BMW M2 Comp TPMS reports temperature so I have watched it to confirm). If I am driving my daughter to school and then come back home, the tire internal temperature stays in a safe zone for the 50 minute round trip. That doesn't say anything about the tread temperature on cold roads, but the mass of air inside the tire is a very good overall indicator of equilibrium temperature if you think about the physics.

If the roads are wet, snowy, icy, all bets are off. You may as well be rolling on cue balls at that point since the summer tires will be so worthless. But in that case I'd rather not be driving a nice car anyhow, and default to my pickup truck or wife's car.

I am tentatively planning to purchase a second set of wheels and go with the Conti DWS 06+ in the OEM size. I want to live with the car a few months to make sure I will keep it long term before investing the ~ $3K it will cost.

You can deviate from OEM size and not affect the speedo too much (265/35 will be off about 3.3 mph in 6th gear at 3000rpm compared to OEM 265/30). The impact I'd want to assess would be how it affects the rev-match system in lower gears. I don't know how sophisticated the software is, but if they are using a simple speed-rpm map of the gears based on the assumption of OEM tire size, then rev matching will be off about 200rpm for a 3-2 downshift (that may be no big deal, since I doubt a typical driver can do it any better).

 

[Ktrw]

I have several cars with summer tires and don't really worry down to about 35-40F as long as the roads are dry. A key factor is how the car is stored; mine are kept inside a garage that stays 55-60F so the tires start out warm and will stay fairly warm (my BMW M2 Comp TPMS reports temperature so I have watched it to confirm). If I am driving my daughter to school and then come back home, the tire internal temperature stays in a safe zone for the 50 minute round trip. That doesn't say anything about the tread temperature on cold roads, but the mass of air inside the tire is a very good overall indicator of equilibrium temperature if you think about the physics.

If the roads are wet, snowy, icy, all bets are off. You may as well be rolling on cue balls at that point since the summer tires will be so worthless. But in that case I'd rather not be driving a nice car anyhow, and default to my pickup truck or wife's car.

I am tentatively planning to purchase a second set of wheels and go with the Conti DWS 06+ in the OEM size. I want to live with the car a few months to make sure I will keep it long term before investing the ~ $3K it will cost.

You can deviate from OEM size and not affect the speedo too much (265/35 will be off about 3.3 mph in 6th gear at 3000rpm compared to OEM 265/30). The impact I'd want to assess would be how it affects the rev-match system in lower gears. I don't know how sophisticated the software is, but if they are using a simple speed-rpm map of the gears based on the assumption of OEM tire size, then rev matching will be off about 200rpm for a 3-2 downshift (that may be no big deal, since I doubt a typical driver can do it any better).

Yeah, with 265/35 I don't notice any difference in the rev-match downshifts, but you raise a good point there about the speed-rpm relationship for that system. 3-2 still feels great and 2-1 can be a bit awkward even with the stock size so I tend not to do that one often.

Also with the stock tires, the speedo appears to be pretty much perfect relative to GPS speed, which I can't say for some other cars in my family fleet. With 265/35 obviously, the speed is off ~3pmh at 75mph like you said. There is also less wheel gap and a little more ground clearance with the taller sidewall which is kinda nice.

 

[BatesMotelXIV]

So, recently purchased a 25 type s, that come with the stock ps4’s. My question is, how do they perform in the winter? I live in southern Ohio, Cincinnati area to be specific. I’m under the assumption they will perform terribly with snow/ice on the ground. I’ve never had to use summer tires in Ohio winters before. I know fwd is better than rwd, but it’s understanding that tires are the main importance when it comes to this.

Hey Type SSSHHH,

Obviously, you have plenty of responses, but I'll throw my two cents in should you find my experiences useful. Hopefully, this isn't completely redundant for you.

I also live in greater Cincinnati (Montgomery, to be specific), and my '24 ITS rides on 265/35 R18 Conti DWS06+ tires all year long. I actually drove in maybe an inch of snow last Sunday (as the storm was coming down), and didn't really have an issue with grip. To be clear, I was driving fairly delicately on unpaved (major) roads, and though the grip wasn't fantastic, it was still adequate for my emergency errand. I could carefully stop, turn, and accelerate without any panic moments. However, had the snow been any worse (i.e., another inch or more), I would have resorted to my wife's Pilot. Ultimately, I have no major qualms about driving in an inch of snow or less on the all-seasons...it's precisely what all-seasons are for, right?

I chose the Conti DWS06+'s because I wanted one wheel/tire set I could rely on year-round and last more than 10K-15K miles. These tires should last about 35K-40K miles, if I recall correctly. With that said, I would not criticize anyone who bought snow/winter tires on a separate wheel set that you can swap between. That way, you can enjoy the Pilot Sport 4S grip in the warmer months! Personally, the Contis handle well enough in the warm months because I don't drive above 8/10ths, and they provide confidence in the winter months since the PS4s are not safe in colder conditions even on clean, dry roads.

I hope this helps! Take care.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Yeah, with 265/35 I don't notice any difference in the rev-match downshifts, but you raise a good point there about the speed-rpm relationship for that system. 3-2 still feels great and 2-1 can be a bit awkward even with the stock size so I tend not to do that one often.

Also with the stock tires, the speedo appears to be pretty much perfect relative to GPS speed, which I can't say for some other cars in my family fleet. With 265/35 obviously, the speed is off ~3pmh at 75mph like you said. There is also less wheel gap and a little more ground clearance with the taller sidewall which is kinda nice.

I run vredstein wintrac pro in a 255/40/18, which are taller than stock by a little bit. Zero issue with the rev match. Rev match should be relying on the axle position sensor, not speedo. Oddly, even with a taller tire, my speedo has been fairly accurate...

 

[Ktrw]

I run vredstein wintrac pro in a 255/40/18, which are taller than stock by a little bit. Zero issue with the rev match. Rev match should be relying on the axle position sensor, not speedo. Oddly, even with a taller tire, my speedo has been fairly accurate...

Looks like a 255/40/18 at 3000rpm in 6th gear is 82.39mph compared to 83.25mph with 265/35/19 and 79.94mph for the stock tire size. So yeah you're about 1mph closer than me to the real speed.

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