Possibly Trading In For Integra Type-S

[optronix]

3 major things to consider if contemplating driving your ITS in the Rust Belt.

1) That a winter driven car will not last the same amount of time as a summer only car.

Hondas seem to start to rust at year 10 and hit the lower bound of the exponential rust progression at about year 13. This is coming from two first hand experiences, both bought new off the lot. I park the ITS for 4 months out of the year, meaning for every 3 full years I drive the car, a winter driven car will have 4 year of drive time. Long term, when the winter driven cars are rotted out thanks to rust, the "lost" years will easily be recouped as the car should last into its 20's.

2) Eventually when it does rust out, will there be anything worth buying?

If I could guarantee there would be a relatively lightweight, manual, combustion engine car available for purchase in 2035-2040, I'd gladly drive the ITS year round but sadly the trend is that by that time we'll be driving 5000+ pound, electric bricks with amazing performance but zero soul, that's if we're even driving in the first place and not mostly relying on auto pilot.

3) That the car will age as gracefully.

Cold starts, road grime , potholes, stone chips, snow brushes....... the average summer driven car will still degrade but not nearly as fast as one living through repeated harsh winters. Sure you could always swap out parts for new ones but at a decent expense versus putting the abuse on another forgettable vehicle.


I write this not to pick on anyone specific, but knowing a lot of potential ITS buyers could possibly read through this thread and I thought I'd give them some perspective that lead me to my decision.

It might not be an expensive car, but to the few who appreciate the formula, I don't expect another crack at it. I wonder how many regret not taking better care of their golden era, late 90's JDM icons because it was "just a car" only to look back and regret it.

Like a '94 Supra, a '97 RX-7 or even the OG 2001 Integra Type-R, moderately special but obtainable cars only obtain their true prestige once they're gone. Not having a crystal ball of the future, but seeing the writing on the wall, I really think the early 2020's are going to be the sweetheart period with incoming regulations that will further make cars boring to drive.

Well articulated points. I have some thoughts to add.

I don't live in an equivalent climate so I won't try to keep up, but @Frenzal already suggested what I was thinking-there have to be ways to combat rust. Again, I'm aware I'm coming from a position of ignorance, but I figured it was worth mentioning because I routinely see people claiming they want to stay away from Alcantara or piano black, but personal experience for both of those scenarios suggest that it's fine if you take a little extra effort to take care of it. Perhaps that's the same for rust or perhaps it could be added to the array of 'death' and 'taxes', I don't know, but at least one other person seems to think so.

I also see lots of speculation. Let's start with value. I'm sure if I knew the Eagles would win the Super Bowl last February I could have made a ton of money. Trying to guess what cars will be future classics is more often than not a fool's errand TBH, especially if it means you're short-changing yourself from experiencing the car and you basically preserve it for half a year for someone else... all to make a few extra grand? I agree that I wish I could have kept all 3 of my pristine S13s (well, maybe 2.5) and maybe a numbers-matching 69 Yenko Camaro while I'm at it. But I wouldn't stake your retirement on your ITS being worth 300,000,000 rubles in 2050.

Finally on the topic of EVs and regulations. I wouldn't want to place any bets on where that's going either. I think it's widely known at this point the EV market has chilled if not frozen over. Regulations- do they even exist anymore? Right this moment, I'm trying to figure out if the agencies that enforce them aren't already effectively neutered, or at the very least helmed by some political appointee with completely conflicting agendas or worldviews. Whatever side of the fence you're on as far as what conspiracy you choose to reinforce, the political pendulum will continue to swing for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure exactly when, but allowing that kind of chaos to influence your daily life stopped making sense some time ago. Especially if it's along the lines of assuming cars will be "boring" to drive... that's a subjective take at best and close-minded at worst. Have you driven any electric cars? They're ALL boring and will stay that way forever? Just say that out loud, does it seem like a reasonable position to take?

My point is that treating a car like an investment is not for everybody.

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[SilverRocket]

Well articulated points. I have some thoughts to add.

I don't live in an equivalent climate so I won't try to keep up, but @Frenzal already suggested what I was thinking-there have to be ways to combat rust. Again, I'm aware I'm coming from a position of ignorance, but I figured it was worth mentioning because I routinely see people claiming they want to stay away from Alcantara or piano black, but personal experience for both of those scenarios suggest that it's fine if you take a little extra effort to take care of it. Perhaps that's the same for rust or perhaps it could be added to the array of 'death' and 'taxes', I don't know, but at least one other person seems to think so.

I also see lots of speculation. Let's start with value. I'm sure if I knew the Eagles would win the Super Bowl last February I could have made a ton of money. Trying to guess what cars will be future classics is more often than not a fool's errand TBH, especially if it means you're short-changing yourself from experiencing the car and you basically preserve it for half a year for someone else... all to make a few extra grand? I agree that I wish I could have kept all 3 of my pristine S13s (well, maybe 2.5) and maybe a numbers-matching 69 Yenko Camaro while I'm at it. But I wouldn't stake your retirement on your ITS being worth 300,000,000 rubles in 2050.

Finally on the topic of EVs and regulations. I wouldn't want to place any bets on where that's going either. I think it's widely known at this point the EV market has chilled if not frozen over. Regulations- do they even exist anymore? Right this moment, I'm trying to figure out if the agencies that enforce them aren't already effectively neutered, or at the very least helmed by some political appointee with completely conflicting agendas or worldviews. Whatever side of the fence you're on as far as what conspiracy you choose to reinforce, the political pendulum will continue to swing for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure exactly when, but allowing that kind of chaos to influence your daily life stopped making sense some time ago. Especially if it's along the lines of assuming cars will be "boring" to drive... that's a subjective take at best and close-minded at worst. Have you driven any electric cars? They're ALL boring and will stay that way forever? Just say that out loud, does it seem like a reasonable position to take?

My point is that treating a car like an investment is not for everybody.

Rust proofing is a extender not a absolute solution. From what I've seen it gains you an extra 5, maybe 10 years if you're lucky but it's inevitable. A rust proofed car will not be comparable to example a Californian ITS, but a winter stored car will be damn close.

Second, I totally agree with you and Frenzal if you're looking at it from an investment perspective. No sense in keeping it immaculate if ultimately you see yourself selling the car, whether that's in 2, 5 or 20 years. I mean still take good care of it but really you've already mentally committed to the fact that one day it will be sold willingly.
From my perspective I got the car, started to enjoy it and realized for me, this car was a "from my cold dead hands" kind of car.

Who knows, we might continue into an even greater car period with better selection, but if that's not true, I'll have the ITS to fall back on. But I seriously doubt it.

Finally look at the M cars, usually the benchmarks for anything that's not a supercar. Like I alluded to in my long post, cars are becoming heavy. The latest M5 while crazy capable is an absolute porker and even the M2 is a trunk full away from 4000lbs. The Lotus mentality is few and far between and while I do agree that short to medium term we're not going all electric, the hybridization of performance vehicles is well under way and unlikely to stop.

Combine that with silly regulations, the future doesn't look bright and I don't think you need a tin foil hat for that.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62225420/car-speed-warning-devices/

Where California goes, so goes the rest of North America. We dodged a bullet, but for how long?

That's why I am doing my best to preserve my ITS and if I happen to be wrong, GREAT! It's not for money but love of driving a certain kind of car that fuels me to do what I do.

 

[optronix]

Rust proofing is a extender not a absolute solution. From what I've seen it gains you an extra 5, maybe 10 years if you're lucky but it's inevitable. A rust proofed car will not be comparable to example a Californian ITS, but a winter stored car will be damn close.

Second, I totally agree with you and Frenzal if you're looking at it from an investment perspective. No sense in keeping it immaculate if ultimately you see yourself selling the car, whether that's in 2, 5 or 20 years. I mean still take good care of it but really you've already mentally committed to the fact that one day it will be sold willingly.
From my perspective I got the car, started to enjoy it and realized for me, this car was a "from my cold dead hands" kind of car.

Who knows, we might continue into an even greater car period with better selection, but if that's not true, I'll have the ITS to fall back on. But I seriously doubt it.

Finally look at the M cars, usually the benchmarks for anything that's not a supercar. Like I alluded to in my long post, cars are becoming heavy. The latest M5 while crazy capable is an absolute porker and even the M2 is a trunk full away from 4000lbs. The Lotus mentality is few and far between and while I do agree that short to medium term we're not going all electric, the hybridization of performance vehicles is well under way and unlikely to stop.

Combine that with silly regulations, the future doesn't look bright and I don't think you need a tin foil hat for that.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62225420/car-speed-warning-devices/

Where California goes, so goes the rest of North America. We dodged a bullet, but for how long?

That's why I am doing my best to preserve my ITS and if I happen to be wrong, GREAT! It's not for money but love of driving a certain kind of car that fuels me to do what I do.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people caring for their cars. I care for my car like I'm going to keep it forever, but never do. I agree with your assessment that the DE5 is worthy of such high regard, especially for an obtainable car produced in low numbers. You're not wrong, and I wish I had your level of commitment to realize I actually will keep this car forever!

I just think you're the exception, not the rule.

And as for the future, I'm actually cautiously optimistic. I'll admit that I was once probably not far off from your doom and gloom skepticism, but seeing cars like the McLaren Artura gives me hope. Yes, it's a supercar. But it's light! And it's also hybrid! If McLaren can do it, then so can other manufacturers if they put their mind to it. There is enough of a fervor from enthusiasts to justify it, but I won't kid myself I do expect it to take a while to trickle down to us normies.

You mention the M cars, and you're not wrong there. But I think that's more of a business alignment thing than a "follow along with regulations" thing. BMW's priorities changed somewhere around the E9x to F8x era. The F8x cars got loads of shit for being too big, too numb, too TURBO... and that was nothing compared to what we got with the G8x. The Supra/Z4 though I think is now the best car BMW has on sale. I really liked the F8x generation though, the F87 M2 CS being among my all-time favorite bimmers... and the F80 being at least a push with the ITS as the best-looking sedan ever made.

That said, my mind was blown when I heard about the plans Toyota has going, and I feel like the optimism is real because there is plenty of evidence that manufacturers are bailing on their "all or nothing" EV plans. Porsche in particular- I think they started to realize that the level of effort required to "Porschify" an EV was not measuring up to the ROI from what they saw in the market. And I don't believe they were in a position to be prepared to compromise; if they were to bring an EV to market, it would surely have to meet and exceed all expectations from enthusiasts. That's why we still haven't seen the EV mid-engine twins yet, and why we probably won't for some time- at least not without a solid ICE option to back it up.

Anyway, I just gave you a hard time for speculating yet here I am. Call me contrarian I just wanted to offer a different perspective. I can't fault anyone for not wanting to ruin a sports car during winters in the Norther wastes, and the DE5 is more of a sports car than any other 4 door... probably ever.

 

[SilverRocket]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for people caring for their cars. I care for my car like I'm going to keep it forever, but never do. I agree with your assessment that the DE5 is worthy of such high regard, especially for an obtainable car produced in low numbers. You're not wrong, and I wish I had your level of commitment to realize I actually will keep this car forever!

I just think you're the exception, not the rule.

And as for the future, I'm actually cautiously optimistic. I'll admit that I was once probably not far off from your doom and gloom skepticism, but seeing cars like the McLaren Artura gives me hope. Yes, it's a supercar. But it's light! And it's also hybrid! If McLaren can do it, then so can other manufacturers if they put their mind to it. There is enough of a fervor from enthusiasts to justify it, but I won't kid myself I do expect it to take a while to trickle down to us normies.

You mention the M cars, and you're not wrong there. But I think that's more of a business alignment thing than a "follow along with regulations" thing. BMW's priorities changed somewhere around the E9x to F8x era. The F8x cars got loads of shit for being too big, too numb, too TURBO... and that was nothing compared to what we got with the G8x. The Supra/Z4 though I think is now the best car BMW has on sale. I really liked the F8x generation though, the F87 M2 CS being among my all-time favorite bimmers... and the F80 being at least a push with the ITS as the best-looking sedan ever made.

That said, my mind was blown when I heard about the plans Toyota has going, and I feel like the optimism is real because there is plenty of evidence that manufacturers are bailing on their "all or nothing" EV plans. Porsche in particular- I think they started to realize that the level of effort required to "Porschify" an EV was not measuring up to the ROI from what they saw in the market. And I don't believe they were in a position to be prepared to compromise; if they were to bring an EV to market, it would surely have to meet and exceed all expectations from enthusiasts. That's why we still haven't seen the EV mid-engine twins yet, and why we probably won't for some time- at least not without a solid ICE option to back it up.

Anyway, I just gave you a hard time for speculating yet here I am. Call me contrarian I just wanted to offer a different perspective. I can't fault anyone for not wanting to ruin a sports car during winters in the Norther wastes, and the DE5 is more of a sports car than any other 4 door... probably ever.

Very valid points and yes I am definitely an exception when it comes to ownership of vehicles.

I'll end with this. We have 2 eyes with different viewpoints to give us depth of field / perspective. When it comes to opinions and beliefs, we get that dynamic only by listening to others. So while you can agree or disagree with whatever topic, we should always be open to hearing from others if done so respectfully.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Get a room! Ha ha. Just kidding.

I agree with lots of that. I also love taking care of the car. I get a sense of pride just looking at it. It's also easier to maintain, than it is to fix it after you let it go to hell.

Also agree, the ITS one of the best looking 4 doors out there. I get comments all the time when folks see it. Just looks special somehow.

I will say, I saw a pristine Audi RS7 today, same color as my car, and the stance was unbelievably good. I don't think it was dropped or anything. Just looked factory. OMG, I would trade for that car in a heartbeat, in spite of its weight!

Sorry, what were we talking about?

 

[evanescent03]

Good day friends! I am currently debating trading in my 2023 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack Widebody for a 2025 Acura Integra Type S. I love the Challenger, but I feel the Integra is a more practical car, easier to maneuver around, more modding potential, easier to work on, etc. I fear however I might miss the RWD V8 aspect...

Anyone coming from a performance V8 that switched to the Integra? Would love to hear your input.

I test drove one last year prior to buying the Challenger but I think I did not give it a fair chance. I drove it in town with the salesperson next to me and didn't really push it.

Just waiting on what the dealership would offer me for the Scat.

you'll miss the V8 and RWD. i do all the time (Camaro SS1LE and C8 Z06). i've never driven the Scat pack but have wanted one from time to time. Seems like a great car. the noise and tail-happy playfulness is something the ITS doesn't provide. However, it is very lightweight and turns in very easily in comparison.

the reality is that there is no car that provides everything. if it's time for a change, go for it. i've owned several car models more than once becasue i go back to them, lol. variety is the spice of life. The ITS is a 4 door, 2WD, adequately powered car with an manual. The hatch adds a very small amoutn of practicality if you need the space for larger items (although i'd think the Charger has a large boot and back seat for MOST stuff).

Good luck choosing... you can't really go wrong. so again, you'll miss the V8/RWD but you can also live without it and enjoy some other benefits the ITS offers.

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