Back on Track

[StingertimeNC]

wow. Keep us posted on the misfire thing. sorry for all the rattles.

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[Victorofhavoc]

wow. Keep us posted on the misfire thing. sorry for all the rattles.

After banging on the passenger speaker and the little plastic triangle at the front of the door glass, some of the noise quieted down, but seems like it will pop up again randomly. I also strongly knocked on top of the infotainment screen and that helped with some of the rattle there again. I bet that will come back, though.

I'm keeping an eye on the misfire. It seems to always happen first thing in the morning right after it settles rpm down to normal idle.

I really need to hurry up and sound deaden/insulate this thing. I bet that will help a lot.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I got in touch with acura directly recently and they affirmed I shouldn't have had the experiences I've had so far with the number of rattles and other body, paint, and fitment issues. Unfortunately their response so far has been to go back to the dealer yet again. They also told me there's another dealer franchise I can go to that people have had better experiences with and it's "only 200 mi away, across the state of Missouri."

At this point the resonant rattles/squeals occur at high rpm and mid rpm, while more rattles have developed at low rpm. My infotainment, seat belt, and door trim rattles are by far the worst since they just don't stop unless someone bangs on the plastic every 5mins while driving.

I wish I could say the car was still a joy to drive, but when constant resonant squeal noises are getting in the way of the actual driving experience it's not so fun .


So where do I go from here?? I'm entertaining the idea of just tearing apart the entire interior to add a significant amount of sound deadening and dampening. I'm thinking roughly 60lbs or so would help, especially in the doors. The real question becomes, is it worth it so spend 40+ hours of my time tearing this car down? I'm just not sure yet...

I have an appointment tomorrow to drive an m3. I'm also going to take some time to find an audi rs5 and rs3 to test drive.

 

[ABPDE5]

I got in touch with acura directly recently and they affirmed I shouldn't have had the experiences I've had so far with the number of rattles and other body, paint, and fitment issues. Unfortunately their response so far has been to go back to the dealer yet again. They also told me there's another dealer franchise I can go to that people have had better experiences with and it's "only 200 mi away, across the state of Missouri."

At this point the resonant rattles/squeals occur at high rpm and mid rpm, while more rattles have developed at low rpm. My infotainment, seat belt, and door trim rattles are by far the worst since they just don't stop unless someone bangs on the plastic every 5mins while driving.

I wish I could say the car was still a joy to drive, but when constant resonant squeal noises are getting in the way of the actual driving experience it's not so fun .


So where do I go from here?? I'm entertaining the idea of just tearing apart the entire interior to add a significant amount of sound deadening and dampening. I'm thinking roughly 60lbs or so would help, especially in the doors. The real question becomes, is it worth it so spend 40+ hours of my time tearing this car down? I'm just not sure yet...

I have an appointment tomorrow to drive an m3. I'm also going to take some time to find an audi rs5 and rs3 to test drive.

Best of luck! Unfortunately, seems you got pretty unlucky with your ITS... I've got a rattle under the dash (needs some foam applied between one of the cable plugs and the socket), but that's about it -- no paint / dent, etc. issues like you found (and this is winter / cold cycle number 2 for me).

Just my 2 cents... but if I was in the market for an M3, I wouldn't consider the Audis. They absolutely have monstrous performance, but -- like the ITS -- they come with disadvantageous powertrain orientations / layouts that the M3 doesn't, and regardless of how well they've been engineered around that disadvantage, they'll always be fighting it. If I was willing to spend the $ for an M3, I'd take the mid-engined / longitudinal platform (and the I6) over the front-engined / transverse one every time.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Best of luck! Unfortunately, seems you got pretty unlucky with your ITS... I've got a rattle under the dash (needs some foam applied between one of the cable plugs and the socket), but that's about it -- no paint / dent, etc. issues like you found (and this is winter / cold cycle number 2 for me).

Just my 2 cents... but if I was in the market for an M3, I wouldn't consider the Audis. They absolutely have monstrous performance, but -- like the ITS -- they come with disadvantageous powertrain orientations / layouts that the M3 doesn't, and regardless of how well they've been engineered around that disadvantage, they'll always be fighting it. If I was willing to spend the $ for an M3, I'd take the mid-engined / longitudinal platform (and the I6) over the front-engined / transverse one every time.

I agree and that's part of why I didn't want an rs3 last time around.

The rs5 is different. It is a longitudinal platform and most power is sent to the rear. It's a far step from the standard s5. The major downside to it is that it's auto only. It does drive like a hot hatch instead of a sports car though, so it's a lot closer to an its than an m3.

At the end of the day I need something to fit two carseats in the back and still have fun driving it. My wife argued I should delete a car last time instead of adding one, but after owning the its she's now also changing her tune and asking what two cars I'd replace it with . Only thing keeping me from two cars right now is the size of the losses and taxes to hit me...

Also, I'm pretty sure with two more visits to the dealer I can start lemon law action with a lawyer, but that's a tough case to argue in my state...

 

[optronix]

I haven't driven an RS3, but you'll most likely be disappointed with an RS5. I can not think of a better daily driver, but the completely numb steering does nothing to inspire confidence for any sort of driving beyond getting from point a to point b. That and the weight and I wouldn't consider taking it on track for a second. The possible wildcard is the RS5 competition variant, but that's far too expensive for whatever gains you'd get- and the Audi steering is still going to always hold it back.

They do look amazing, and while the engine isn't necessarily "special", it is very difficult to find any fault in how it sounds or delivers power. It's a fun car, just not a sports car. And that's not even getting into price.

RS3s however seem to be fairly dominant at my local grassroots trackday stuff. The newer ones have apparently been better engineered to dial out the horrific understeer earlier iterations were known for. The engine is amazing.

None of these cars except the M3 are available in a manual, so perhaps that's your play. The M3 is going to be definitively faster and more capable (especially if you forego the manual and get it in comp or CS trim)... but for me the value just wasn't there at or near double the cost. Some other idiots on this forum try to argue that "it isn't double the cost" but if it can be spec'd to a price point that is literally 2x the MSRP of an ITS, I consider that double the cost. FFS. Anyway.

The additional rattles and noises plus the ever-more noticeable torque steer have had a cumulative effect on my experience as well, so I started flirting with the idea of a CT4V BW... but actually talked myself out of it. It's still a Cadillac so any concept of "more luxury" is going to be surface deep at best, and it's still far more money for what feels like marginal gains and possibly some deficits because of the weight factor... but it is at least rear-wheel drive, and is available in a manual. I think it may be worth your while to at least drive one. But for me, despite the "honeymoon" finally ending I still ended up at the same conclusion think that there is no better option available anywhere near this price point- with the one possible exception of a perfect condition F80 M3, or if you're willing to sacrifice some of the critical "filter" requirements like having 4 doors and a manual. If 2 doors were an option I'd strongly consider the G87 M2 (or F87...).

I've said it many times but for one reason or another the message always seemed to land wrong, like I was being cynical or something with recommending you move on from the ITS... but I will now say I saw this coming a mile away lol. You've never truly been happy with the car, and that's never a good place to start a long-term ownership experience. I know the car market is kind of a nightmare right now, but if you have the disposable cash it might be time to start looking at other options.

 

[ABPDE5]

I will also add that, while I originally hated it, the appearance of the new M3 has grown on me. I actually think it looks pretty good in person, and in my opinion, it's the best looking car in their lineup.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I haven't driven an RS3, but you'll most likely be disappointed with an RS5. I can not think of a better daily driver, but the completely numb steering does nothing to inspire confidence for any sort of driving beyond getting from point a to point b. That and the weight and I wouldn't consider taking it on track for a second. The possible wildcard is the RS5 competition variant, but that's far too expensive for whatever gains you'd get- and the Audi steering is still going to always hold it back.

They do look amazing, and while the engine isn't necessarily "special", it is very difficult to find any fault in how it sounds or delivers power. It's a fun car, just not a sports car. And that's not even getting into price.

RS3s however seem to be fairly dominant at my local grassroots trackday stuff. The newer ones have apparently been better engineered to dial out the horrific understeer earlier iterations were known for. The engine is amazing.

None of these cars except the M3 are available in a manual, so perhaps that's your play. The M3 is going to be definitively faster and more capable (especially if you forego the manual and get it in comp or CS trim)... but for me the value just wasn't there at or near double the cost. Some other idiots on this forum try to argue that "it isn't double the cost" but if it can be spec'd to a price point that is literally 2x the MSRP of an ITS, I consider that double the cost. FFS. Anyway.

The additional rattles and noises plus the ever-more noticeable torque steer have had a cumulative effect on my experience as well, so I started flirting with the idea of a CT4V BW... but actually talked myself out of it. It's still a Cadillac so any concept of "more luxury" is going to be surface deep at best, and it's still far more money for what feels like marginal gains and possibly some deficits because of the weight factor... but it is at least rear-wheel drive, and is available in a manual. I think it may be worth your while to at least drive one. But for me, despite the "honeymoon" finally ending I still ended up at the same conclusion think that there is no better option available anywhere near this price point- with the one possible exception of a perfect condition F80 M3, or if you're willing to sacrifice some of the critical "filter" requirements like having 4 doors and a manual. If 2 doors were an option I'd strongly consider the G87 M2 (or F87...).

I've said it many times but for one reason or another the message always seemed to land wrong, like I was being cynical or something with recommending you move on from the ITS... but I will now say I saw this coming a mile away lol. You've never truly been happy with the car, and that's never a good place to start a long-term ownership experience. I know the car market is kind of a nightmare right now, but if you have the disposable cash it might be time to start looking at other options.

Yea i hear you. The new rs3 has me considering it just because of the new diff, but it's still a front heavy car.

I was trying to get out of my dual duty car and have a car I can comfortably drive kids around in while still being able to take it to the track for the days I do instruction. Thing is, I could probably outrun most of the students in my wife's q7, so the its was probably too much.

I've been looking at the ct4v bw and ct5v bw, but they're just so ugly and carry the branding of the golden corral crowd. It's truly the caddy brand keeping me away, and that's particularly bad because I have virtually no angst or hatred towards any brand. Buick and caddy are the only exceptions.

M2 is only two door, but I've flirted with shoving kids in the back. M3 might just be the ONLY play. I'll be one to argue that the its and m3 are "close" in price. The its stickered for 58.8k when I bought mine, and base price I got it for 55 range. The m3, much more well equipped, can sticker for 80k on a lot. last time I was offered 7k off. 73k vs 55k is certainly a lot of difference, but in today's car market 18k isn't a civic sized gap anymore.

Have you considered your torque steer might actually be the sticky steering instead/too?

 

[ABPDE5]

Yea i hear you. The new rs3 has me considering it just because of the new diff, but it's still a front heavy car.

I was trying to get out of my dual duty car and have a car I can comfortably drive kids around in while still being able to take it to the track for the days I do instruction. Thing is, I could probably outrun most of the students in my wife's q7, so the its was probably too much.

I've been looking at the ct4v bw and ct5v bw, but they're just so ugly and carry the branding of the golden corral crowd. It's truly the caddy brand keeping me away, and that's particularly bad because I have virtually no angst or hatred towards any brand. Buick and caddy are the only exceptions.

M2 is only two door, but I've flirted with shoving kids in the back. M3 might just be the ONLY play. I'll be one to argue that the its and m3 are "close" in price. The its stickered for 58.8k when I bought mine, and base price I got it for 55 range. The m3, much more well equipped, can sticker for 80k on a lot. last time I was offered 7k off. 73k vs 55k is certainly a lot of difference, but in today's car market 18k isn't a civic sized gap anymore.

Have you considered your torque steer might actually be the sticky steering instead/too?

When I was doing the math (18+ months ago), the ITS was 52k and the M3 started at 77k (and wasn't realistically available in that spec... much like the M2 "started at" 63k but couldn't be found in a base configuration anywhere). More or less +50% at minimum for the M3 and realistically close to +75-100%, like Optronix noted.

Things have changed. If it was 60k vs 70k, I'd have arrived at a different conclusion.

 

[optronix]

I will also add that, while I originally hated it, the appearance of the new M3 has grown on me. I actually think it looks pretty good in person, and in my opinion, it's the best looking car in their lineup.

Exactly this. After seeing a couple in person, I don't mind it at all. It is still just too damn big and bloated, but it looks aggressive as hell, and clearly differentiates from the "regular ass 3 series" crowd. It's no F8x, but I do not hate the design anymore at all... especially on the darker colors.

That said I'm quite curious to see where they go with the next generation... the LCI is out now and it didn't really move the needle much (pretty much just new headlights?). But I suppose there is a slim possibility that BMW actually heeds the pleas of all the old-school BMW fans out there that want less weight and a more attractive design... but with everything moving towards hybrid I won't hold my breath. I am very curious though so will watch that space.

That said I'm also very curious to see what Honda does with the next-gen CTR, and if Acura will follow suit with another variant of it...

Yea i hear you. The new rs3 has me considering it just because of the new diff, but it's still a front heavy car.

I was trying to get out of my dual duty car and have a car I can comfortably drive kids around in while still being able to take it to the track for the days I do instruction. Thing is, I could probably outrun most of the students in my wife's q7, so the its was probably too much.

I've been looking at the ct4v bw and ct5v bw, but they're just so ugly and carry the branding of the golden corral crowd. It's truly the caddy brand keeping me away, and that's particularly bad because I have virtually no angst or hatred towards any brand. Buick and caddy are the only exceptions.

M2 is only two door, but I've flirted with shoving kids in the back. M3 might just be the ONLY play. I'll be one to argue that the its and m3 are "close" in price. The its stickered for 58.8k when I bought mine, and base price I got it for 55 range. The m3, much more well equipped, can sticker for 80k on a lot. last time I was offered 7k off. 73k vs 55k is certainly a lot of difference, but in today's car market 18k isn't a civic sized gap anymore.

Have you considered your torque steer might actually be the sticky steering instead/too?

This is definitely where I'm at too- it is a VERY steep hill for me to climb to get over the fact that the BW cars are GM products. I was almost there because the Camaro is just such an excellent driver's car... but you're right. The brand is a SUBSTANTIAL deterrent.

And you may very well be onto something with the sticky steering thing. I need to get that recall done, because it has not gone unnoticed how "sudden" I started being bothered by the torque steer.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Test drove the m3 today. Last one I drove was a competition, but I assumed the shifter area was going to be an issue for the cupholder, and in fact it was. That was the only flaw in an otherwise pretty nice car that I could spot.

Power wise, it's just as lethargic down low as the its is. Until those turbos spin up they are definitely robbing a lot of low end power from an otherwise very responsive engine. Once above 2k rpm the throttle was way more responsive. The shifter was more numb for sure, but bushings and a knob are easy solves. Clutch had a lot more feel, but it was twice as long. It took me about 6 or 7 gear changes to become familiar with it enough to do a light launch from a yield onto an on ramp. Once it opens up a bit (and I was conservative in the cold wet here) it pulls verrrry smoothly to redline. Way more linear than the its and it doesn't run out of breath around 5700rpm.

Interior... There is no comparison. Easy to see where the money goes. Everything is more solid and premium. German plastic is just more dense.

Exterior, it's fine. The its I think is prettier, but I can't deny the bimmer has "road presence".

Steering and road feel... It's more insulated than the its. Feedback is a tad less apparent due to the weight and size. Turn in is softer, but power out provides better feel than the its. The steering does transmit all the road feel you'd expect, but that insulation feeling doesn't entirely go away ever. It's not bad in the slightest, just not as good. A decreasing radius sweeper, I'd much rather have the its. And increasing radius sweeper, I'd rather have the m3.

Value? The dealer tried to hardball me and offer 40k for the its, so I smiled and got up. They're closed until Saturday, so I'll wait for that Saturday morning call of "we just don't want to miss out on a deal" . I want 48 for it if I'm going to sell it. It'll be a solid loss on my end but I always knew I'd never get back the ppf full value or any of the other stuff, so I have a minimum for a "good deal".

 

[optronix]

Test drove the m3 today. Last one I drove was a competition, but I assumed the shifter area was going to be an issue for the cupholder, and in fact it was. That was the only flaw in an otherwise pretty nice car that I could spot.

Power wise, it's just as lethargic down low as the its is. Until those turbos spin up they are definitely robbing a lot of low end power from an otherwise very responsive engine. Once above 2k rpm the throttle was way more responsive. The shifter was more numb for sure, but bushings and a knob are easy solves. Clutch had a lot more feel, but it was twice as long. It took me about 6 or 7 gear changes to become familiar with it enough to do a light launch from a yield onto an on ramp. Once it opens up a bit (and I was conservative in the cold wet here) it pulls verrrry smoothly to redline. Way more linear than the its and it doesn't run out of breath around 5700rpm.

Interior... There is no comparison. Easy to see where the money goes. Everything is more solid and premium. German plastic is just more dense.

Exterior, it's fine. The its I think is prettier, but I can't deny the bimmer has "road presence".

Steering and road feel... It's more insulated than the its. Feedback is a tad less apparent due to the weight and size. Turn in is softer, but power out provides better feel than the its. The steering does transmit all the road feel you'd expect, but that insulation feeling doesn't entirely go away ever. It's not bad in the slightest, just not as good. A decreasing radius sweeper, I'd much rather have the its. And increasing radius sweeper, I'd rather have the m3.

Value? The dealer tried to hardball me and offer 40k for the its, so I smiled and got up. They're closed until Saturday, so I'll wait for that Saturday morning call of "we just don't want to miss out on a deal" . I want 48 for it if I'm going to sell it. It'll be a solid loss on my end but I always knew I'd never get back the ppf full value or any of the other stuff, so I have a minimum for a "good deal".

Great feedback on the M3. I have to admit, I am more inclined to it now vs when I was on the hunt for an ITS. If I had to do it over again, I would at least have driven a G80 manual... but knowing my propensity to spec cars out to the nth degree, it would be a very sizeable price difference (for example, I'd probably insist on the carbon buckets... and some carbon trim pieces... etc.). But yeah, "road presence" is a good description. They're sharp looking cars, now that my eyes have adjusted since they were released.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high that you'll get $48k for the ITS. Used car prices are tanking, and there appears to be a good amount of anecdotal references to people getting discounts on new ones. Definitely a good plan to stick to a minimum and not deviate as this isn't a "necessary" purchase... but if you're dead set on $48k I at least will be happy to see you sticking around here for a while .

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Great feedback on the M3. I have to admit, I am more inclined to it now vs when I was on the hunt for an ITS. If I had to do it over again, I would at least have driven a G80 manual... but knowing my propensity to spec cars out to the nth degree, it would be a very sizeable price difference (for example, I'd probably insist on the carbon buckets... and some carbon trim pieces... etc.). But yeah, "road presence" is a good description. They're sharp looking cars, now that my eyes have adjusted since they were released.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high that you'll get $48k for the ITS. Used car prices are tanking, and there appears to be a good amount of anecdotal references to people getting discounts on new ones. Definitely a good plan to stick to a minimum and not deviate as this isn't a "necessary" purchase... but if you're dead set on $48k I at least will be happy to see you sticking around here for a while .

LOL! You might be right, but also sounds like I'd have a good result selling it to another state.

One of the stupid things dealers in Kansas do (and the idiot sales manager at this dealer alluded to it) is give you a lowball trade offer and then explain how you "only get a discount on sales tax when trading to a dealer, but never on a private party sale". So what they'll do is look up the value of the car and then drop it by the price difference of old vs new times 0.1 for the tax. Meaning, on an 80k car, if I trade 40k in, I only pay sales tax on 40k, aka $4k tax. If I sell the car privately, and then buy the m3, I'm on the hook for the entire 8k of sales tax. So they take the private party value they look up, on the low end, and then subtract that 4k.

I think the opposite and I'll tell it to the GM to his face... If you're grandfathered into this system to screw with private sales, you better be coming to the table carrying some value, otherwise you're contributing to the abuse of individuals by the state tax man. I'm not "holding out" for 48k, but they need to be realistic and provide some value in the middle or I'll walk.

I can guarantee that Saturday I'll get a phone call saying they can get to 45k on trade and sell the m3 for 69k. This would be a fair price on both ends. I'll take a little more because I don't like dealerships bullying people, and talking down to me to explain the tax system I already know to try and undervalue a car is a great way to get on my bad side.

 

[optronix]

LOL! You might be right, but also sounds like I'd have a good result selling it to another state.

One of the stupid things dealers in Kansas do (and the idiot sales manager at this dealer alluded to it) is give you a lowball trade offer and then explain how you "only get a discount on sales tax when trading to a dealer, but never on a private party sale". So what they'll do is look up the value of the car and then drop it by the price difference of old vs new times 0.1 for the tax. Meaning, on an 80k car, if I trade 40k in, I only pay sales tax on 40k, aka $4k tax. If I sell the car privately, and then buy the m3, I'm on the hook for the entire 8k of sales tax. So they take the private party value they look up, on the low end, and then subtract that 4k.

I think the opposite and I'll tell it to the GM to his face... If you're grandfathered into this system to screw with private sales, you better be coming to the table carrying some value, otherwise you're contributing to the abuse of individuals by the state tax man. I'm not "holding out" for 48k, but they need to be realistic and provide some value in the middle or I'll walk.

I can guarantee that Saturday I'll get a phone call saying they can get to 45k on trade and sell the m3 for 69k. This would be a fair price on both ends. I'll take a little more because I don't like dealerships bullying people, and talking down to me to explain the tax system I already know to try and undervalue a car is a great way to get on my bad side.

Yeah that's exactly the reason I won't do business with my local Porsche dealer anymore. They had me by the balls when I ordered my last car with their "limited allocation" nonsense, and I took delivery just as the market started to crash and burn from the dizzying heights it was prior to 2022. I lost over $20k when I traded in my 2019 718 GTS for the 2023 718 GTS 4.0... on top of the ~ $30k price difference for "upgrading"... aaaand they tried to make it look like a great value because they didn't charge me a "market adjustment" (lots of other dealers were asking as much as $20k ADM at the time I got my allocation...). It was a shockingly bad financial decision that was 100% fueled by emotion, and it's left me more or less traumatized. The fact it was self-inflicted makes things so much worse...

Anyway, part of the reason for the lowball was the whole "tax credit" thing- they walked me through their "process" and it's literally built into their math. It's a joke.

But the market has swung back to consumers now I think. I agree that you most likely haven't gotten their "best and final" offer yet. I wish you luck- I think an M3 would fit your needs quite well indeed.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Yeah that's exactly the reason I won't do business with my local Porsche dealer anymore. They had me by the balls when I ordered my last car with their "limited allocation" nonsense, and I took delivery just as the market started to crash and burn from the dizzying heights it was prior to 2022. I lost over $20k when I traded in my 2019 718 GTS for the 2023 718 GTS 4.0... on top of the ~ $30k price difference for "upgrading"... aaaand they tried to make it look like a great value because they didn't charge me a "market adjustment" (lots of other dealers were asking as much as $20k ADM at the time I got my allocation...). It was a shockingly bad financial decision that was 100% fueled by emotion, and it's left me more or less traumatized. The fact it was self-inflicted makes things so much worse...

Anyway, part of the reason for the lowball was the whole "tax credit" thing- they walked me through their "process" and it's literally built into their math. It's a joke.

But the market has swung back to consumers now I think. I agree that you most likely haven't gotten their "best and final" offer yet. I wish you luck- I think an M3 would fit your needs quite well indeed.

Yeah I made some decisions as well that led to big losses. It sucks, but that's why we make money. It's the tool to achieve our goals to bring us happiness. My racecar was a result of a lot of bad previous choices. Through 3 different cars and many tens of thousands of dollars I had to learn these hard facts:

1. There is no such thing as a dual duty track and DD car. Porsche comes closest, but everything is still a compromise
2. Buying more power or more car doesn't make you faster, seat time does. All monetary track effort should go to seat time first, be it in a miata, a sim, coaching, or else
3. Modifying cars typically ruins them. Modify to solve a problem, not to create one. Ie, higher temp brake pads, fluids, rotor cooling are great, but power mods lead to rabbit holes of heat problems.
4. There are other people and things in the world beyond our vision. Always increase awareness, whether on track or in life.

While I've lost a ton on cars through covid times, I had a friend that did the opposite of everything I did. He ended up making half a mil and at one point he'd buy a Porsche for msrp, drive it for 6mo then sell it for 60k over his purchase price. I guess it helps to funnel all your taxes through Montana as well...

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