JB4- Burger Motorsports

[StingertimeNC]

Hey gang, has anyone tried the JB4 on their ITS yet?

I have it on my current car and it's always been great. Super easy to install or un-install. Map 2 for 93 octane should give us around 50 HP and 60 Torque.

Thoughts?

Am I going to have to be the first to try it?

Looking for a mild tune so as not to beat the car up too much.

Sponsored

 

[StingertimeNC]

f-it! Just ordered it. They are a great company to deal with. Was running water-meth injection and JB4 on my Stinger and it was a beast!

I'll update as things move along. Don't even have the car yet...LOL

 

[Integra23]

f-it! Just ordered it. They are a great company to deal with. Was running water-meth injection and JB4 on my Stinger and it was a beast!

I'll update as things move along. Don't even have the car yet...LOL

Interesting. What made you switch to the DE5?

 

[Clark_Kent]

This debate has raged on for what seems like forever, piggyback vs. ECU tuning. BMS has been at it for a while and people seem to be pleased with their offerings. People find a lot of comfort in knowing the JB4 can largely be removed "without a trace." There are pros and cons to both methods of tuning; however, I'm certain most on this platform will skew to ECU tuning via Hondata. Would be interested to hear more about your experience with it once you get it up and running.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Interesting. What made you switch to the DE5?

The Stinger was awesome and I was pushing probably 475 HP at the wheels and over 500 tq.

Loved the car.

After I purchased the car I went to the track and fell in love with it. Did as much as I could to make it trackworthy.

Ultimately I wanted a lighter, manual car that was track ready right out of the box. Plus my true love has always been JDM. Love hot hatches, etc.

 

[StingertimeNC]

That's the current ride. I'll miss her but I can't wait until next week. Wife wouldn't green light me having both. LOL.

 

[D-RobIMW]

Using a JB4 in 2023 on an Integra Type S is like using a V-AFC in 2006, after the advent of widely-available factory ROM editors came into the mainstream.

Lying to the ECU is never OK.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Using a JB4 in 2023 on an Integra Type S is like using a V-AFC in 2006, after the advent of widely-available factory ROM editors came into the mainstream.

Lying to the ECU is never OK.

Interesting! Can you be more specific about that? Always happy to learn.

Burger specifically touts the fact that all ECU safeties remain in place, etc.

They have a good track record in the Kia/Hyundai community. Also seem to do well with the BMW/Audi/VW crowd.

Telling the car to add 4 or 5 lbs of boost can't be all bad right? Not sure if it was the car or the Burger module, but boost always varied based on air temps, fuel quality, etc.

I'm definitely not techy enough to argue this though. Just going on my personal experience with the JB4.

With the stinger there were many ECU tunes available. Running an extra 150 HP to the wheels, I never had any issues whatsoever with the JB4, their WMI controller, their bluetooth functionality, fuel control, wastegate control, etc. It's a pretty well sorted offering.

I guess we'll find out.

 

[Integra23]

The Stinger was awesome and I was pushing probably 475 HP at the wheels and over 500 tq.

Loved the car.

After I purchased the car I went to the track and fell in love with it. Did as much as I could to make it trackworthy.

Ultimately I wanted a lighter, manual car that was track ready right out of the box. Plus my true love has always been JDM. Love hot hatches, etc.

I love the stinger and looked at them but at the time used we're going for new pricing and dealers had ADM on new. Also $50k for a Kia seemed like a lot a year or two ago. Though the GT2 does offer some great amenities.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I love the stinger and looked at them but at the time used we're going for new pricing and dealers had ADM on new. Also $50k for a Kia seemed like a lot a year or two ago. Though the GT2 does offer some great amenities.

I lucked out. got mine right before covid. 10k below sticker. 42.5k before tax. local honda dealer is buying it for 35k. (let's not mention the 15k I spent modding it, LOL)

Yes, amenities are great. I'll miss a few of the creature comforts.

 

[seca400]

Hey gang, has anyone tried the JB4 on their ITS yet?

I have it on my current car and it's always been great. Super easy to install or un-install. Map 2 for 93 octane should give us around 50 HP and 60 Torque.

Thoughts?

Am I going to have to be the first to try it?

Looking for a mild tune so as not to beat the car up too much.

Ive been using it since Aug 18, my experience has not been ideal.

It works, it boosts a bit higher, and it pulls a bit harder at certain points through the torque curve, however, the car has averaged 0.4 sec slower on the 1/8 mile (track addict and draggy numbers, map 1 and 2).

I talked to Terry, he suggested I dial back boost in first (tire hop is horrendous on map 2), but the next day I went out to the car, and it wouldn't start! Took about 20 mins, and finally it fired up, and the MIL came on and car went into limp mode. JB4 reported no codes through the app.

I took it right out, plugged in my MX+ and there were 4 codes: P0238 P0108 P0108 and C1555

Terry says it sounds like the JB4 didn't power up, he's asked me to open it to verify the wiring layout, which I'll likely do tomorrow.

MIL went out on its own, I cleared the codes and it seems ok ever since.

I'm going to continue troubleshooting, but this was my first and I'm thinking it's my last piggyback tune.

There has also been a noticable lag, almost a hiccup when going WOT in 3rd, which can be seen in the logs as a huge momentary spike in trims and afr, but not a drop in fuel pressure.

It's a quick n dirty novelty for a bit more power, but I get the feeling it's completely untested on DE5, and there's not too much data available from FK8 or FL5.

I saw Flashpro is out now, really wish I'd just waited.

 

[D-RobIMW]

Ive been using it since Aug 18, my experience has not been ideal.

Your experience is not unique to the DE5.

The best thing you can do is remove it.

 

[Integra23]

Your experience is not unique to the DE5.

The best thing you can do is remove it.

Or spend the big bucks and get this
I hope it comes with cool LEDs

 

[StingertimeNC]

Hmm, i get that. Good Point on it being a new platform for him. i like the fact that they have over the air updates and stuff so as he tweaks things you get the benefit.

I may have to bite the bullet after the fact. I want a reliable 50 HP bump, nothing more..., Could be a $600 mistake.

 

[Azkyrie6]

This debate has raged on for what seems like forever, piggyback vs. ECU tuning. BMS has been at it for a while and people seem to be pleased with their offerings. People find a lot of comfort in knowing the JB4 can largely be removed "without a trace." There are pros and cons to both methods of tuning; however, I'm certain most on this platform will skew to ECU tuning via Hondata. Would be interested to hear more about your experience with it once you get it up and running.

Interesting! Can you be more specific about that? Always happy to learn.

Burger specifically touts the fact that all ECU safeties remain in place, etc.

They have a good track record in the Kia/Hyundai community. Also seem to do well with the BMW/Audi/VW crowd.

Telling the car to add 4 or 5 lbs of boost can't be all bad right? Not sure if it was the car or the Burger module, but boost always varied based on air temps, fuel quality, etc.

I'm definitely not techy enough to argue this though. Just going on my personal experience with the JB4.

With the stinger there were many ECU tunes available. Running an extra 150 HP to the wheels, I never had any issues whatsoever with the JB4, their WMI controller, their bluetooth functionality, fuel control, wastegate control, etc. It's a pretty well sorted offering.

I guess we'll find out.

I'll add my two cents regarding any tuning or piggyback "without a trace". I deal with cybersecurity on a daily basis in my work.

Modern cars utilize a network communication protocol called CAN-Bus. This is a low level protocol developed by Bosch, yes the same that manufactures our ECU's in the integra. CAN-Bus is the data link layer that allows the ECU to send/receive data to other nodes throughout your car. The ECU defines a set of variables used in certain algorithms; it then identifies devices used for data collection and algorithm detection. Algorithms generate model construction, validation and anomaly detections, that is normal/abnormal communication messages sent while operating your car.

This data is normally in J1939, hexadecimal format that can be stored in local memory or gateway logs. We know these gateway logs are periodically uploaded to car manufacturer's, the most prominent is Tesla. We also know that our Honda/Acura have infotainment systems record: Personal Identifiers/Contact information, Calls to customer service, collision data, oil life, odometer mileage, fuel level, dashboard warning lamps, failure codes, maintenance status, diagnostic information, trip logs, etc.

Then we get to Connected services like AcuraLink, navigation system settings, voice commands, connectivity settings, GPS information and vehicle speed/accel/decel, steering angle or Acura Watch system.

Honda Policy:
https://www.honda.com/privacy/connected-product-privacy-notice

Sample list of groups who has your data:
https://themarkup.org/the-breakdown/2022/07/27/who-is-collecting-data-from-your-car

As far as I'm aware, knock count and knock controls are not monitored or recorded in our Bosch ECU's; the Hondata controller can do that. CAN-Bus data is possible to transmit on board diagnostics as well as operational data to the 'Cloud' for analysis and vehicle troubleshooting.

When playing with your ECU to run extra boost, HP increases pushes the car to its pre-tuned torque limiters and one can reasonably assume the data can be stored and sent. It's already proven hackers can start honda cars through SiriusXM gaining access to all your data. I'd be cautious with the remove "without a trace" claims if you ever have to deal with warranty-claims.

Biggest issue is an advanced adversary can access our cars remotely; while novice thieves get the CANBus injector on darknet, tap into our headlight ECU to then unlock our doors, start the ignition and drive away. Huge vulnerability in all our cars so the industry is exploring the Zero-Trust architecture going from "trust, but verify" to "Never trust, constantly verify"; but this requires real-time exchange to servers.

Sorry for long write-up, but assume any tuning, modification of any sort to ECU can be traced if one knows what they're doing.

Sponsored