Any ISSUES with lowering springs on track??

[koatic]

I think I have finally changed my mind, and the gap is bothering me more and more, so I am getting springs.
Before I do, I am curious who has springs and been very aggressive on track.
I want to make sure the front wont rub on very hard corners with body roll when wheel is turned outwards.
I am only going to do a modest drop Eibach pro kit which I know will be fine for daily.
pic below is a stock photo from an article I read but want to hear if anyone aggressively driving on tack has had any issues with hitting the fender.
@optronix @StingertimeNC

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[StingertimeNC]

No issues whatsoever. I’m running pro kit, 19x9.5, +45 offset rims, 275/30 tires. Setup is fine on track. Plenty of room for fender clearance. Trimmed the bottom third of the bump stop when installing the springs.

do it!!

 

[koatic]

No issues whatsoever. I’m running pro kit, 19x9.5, +45 offset rims, 275/30 tires. Setup is fine on track. Plenty of room for fender clearance. Trimmed the bottom third of the bump stop when installing the springs.

do it!!

Awesome. thx. any issues installing. heard of a few on this board with axle seal leaking after spring installs. Will be doing this myself and not sure if this is a two person job to make sure the axle doesn't pull out.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Two people are better. I followed the instructions on this you tube video and had no issues. Hand torqued bolts after.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Torque specs (used type r specs from this chart)

View attachment Torque Specs Si and Type R.docx (1) (1).pdf

 

[optronix]

I don't think you'll run into "issues" per se, but I mildly regret doing the springs because I didn't take the appropriate steps to "correct" some of the negative sides of lowering the car. It was inevitable that I was going to lower the car but I probably should have just waited to do it all at once. Also I really want to see what HRC brings to market from a coilover perspective, otherwise I probably would have just waited and done Ohlins.

First of all, let me lay down my disclaimer: I have an admittedly very small sample size with the springs installed- just one autocross day. But I know my car pretty well at this point and I noticed a few things that I didn't necessarily love. I have not had the car on an actual race track since the springs went on, and almost surely will not until at least next spring.

Also driving on the street, even spiritedly, I highly doubt anyone would take away any negative aspects from installing springs. In fact the lower center of gravity and higher spring rate make it feel more "sporty" in most conditions. It's not until you're going above at least 7/10ths that I'd think anyone would notice more understeer than usual, and it's not catastrophic anyway.

So in a nutshell, just lowering the car with springs will grant more negative camber in the rear, but not really any in the front. For my car I ended up with ~-1.5 in the front, ~-2.5 in the rear. To my experience, this introduces noticeable understeer.

You can combat this by pulling the strut alignment pins in the front and sliding them full "in"; this should give you roughly another ~-.3 degrees for -1.8ish total in the front. Most folks say this is adequate; but honestly, I 100% intend on getting adjustable ball joints and shooting for at least -2.5 degrees in the front. Some folks who are heavy track rats like @Zygrene have theirs set to as high as over -4 degrees, but claim that's the sweet spot for how they want the car to behave.

I'm also eyeing a set of roll center adjusters, because physics. Whiteline sells them for the FK8, but I'm thinking they should fit. I literally just submitted a question to Whiteline on what their recommendation is; I'll update if they get back to me.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I added the eibach rear sway bar as well. I think that will offset some of the understeer, right?

I wonder how much worse the car would be vs stock, at 10/10ths on a track. I'll never drive it to that point but just wonder.

Regardless, the look is worth the tradeoff. Track for me is just recreation. I want to get faster, but not at any cost, especially when I'm not even close to fully exploiting the car as it sits right now. Plenty of room for improvement as a driver.

 

[RamVA]

I added the eibach rear sway bar as well. I think that will offset some of the understeer, right?

I wonder how much worse the car would be vs stock, at 10/10ths on a track. I'll never drive it to that point but just wonder.

Regardless, the look is worth the tradeoff. Track for me is just recreation. I want to get faster, but not at any cost, especially when I'm not even close to fully exploiting the car as it sits right now. Plenty of room for improvement as a driver.

The rear sway should wake up the rear, and will reduce understeer going into turns, and make it more steerable by throttle. It may not help with traction coming out of turns, but it won't make it worse.

This has been my first step on VWs and Audis, they're very inert from stock, but once you change the rear sway you can make them rotate. I would leave the front alone.

Our track cars have adjustable sways on both ends. I think it's the best way to tune the balance (rather than alignment or tire pressure), but they can be a bit annoying to dial in. Eibach seems like a good choice at a good price.

 

[optronix]

Agreed, a rear sway bar is another option to dial out understeer. I may do that as well, but I really want to try the camber.

I'll also throw out there that I did not adequately play with tire pressures. That probably could have made enough of a difference for me to not notice the understeer at all. I was running ~36psi in front, ~40psi rear. If I do head back out with this setup I'll try 38/45, and go as high as 50 if I need to. I think that will help.

 

[StingertimeNC]

Honestly I think my biggest problem at the track as far as improvement is really just seat time/frequency. Going twice a year is not enough, so I just have to accept that it's hard to make major improvements and just enjoy the time. Also, driving Grand Course for 2 hours a year is not a recipe for major improvement. Lastly, street tires. I think next year I'm going to spring for 200 TW tires.

Glad to hear I'm on a decent track with rear sway and springs. (if not totally the right track, lol)

I'm tempted to try the 265/35 Hoosier Track attack pro's. I think I can stuff those in there if I back down from 275/30.

@optronix, please try it for us, LOL.

 

[NoVA_Teggy]

Sorry to bump up this thread but it's been a while.

I'm considering springs as well but have decided to keep the stock height for now until more data is available, and we see what comes out of the HRC catalog.

 

[StingertimeNC]

More data might be tough to come by. I'd give up a fraction of track performance for the stance of the car any day though. Track days are great, but I get to look at the car every day. LOL.

 

[reinstated]

yeah, I get the whole looks vs performance debate. Personally, I went for the drop 'cause I love how it sits now. No regrets so far, but I'm no pro drive

 

[StingertimeNC]

What we need is someone like Point by Patrol, or Zygrene, to drive a car with springs and sways and +45 offset rims, at the track, and provide real feedback.

 

[optronix]

What we need is someone like Point by Patrol, or Zygrene, to drive a car with springs and sways and +45 offset rims, at the track, and provide real feedback.

I swear one of @Zygrene's vids he drove a white one, I think that car just had springs and I think maybe a tune, and he noted that the owner routinely took it to the track. Pretty sure he also had the camber kit too though. Might be worth tracking that guy down for his input...

Personally though I think if I'm going to do more than 1 track day a year I'm getting Ohlins or whatever HRC brings to market. But as things sit right now, I did not make it to a track event this season, and the all seasons are probably going on next week so ~$4k or so for coilovers + install just makes zero sense to me. I LOVE the way the car looks now... but I swear I notice torque steer more. Like, a LOT more... the other day I felt like the steering wheel tried to jump out of my hands and I was just changing lanes...

I'm curious to see what the change back to all seasons on OEM wheels is like. I really dislike the "new" torque steer traits... but I can't really say it's attributed to the springs because I noticed what I thought was a slight increase in torque steer when I put the +45 offset wheels on in spring. What I experienced the other day was not fun though. If there's a way to minimize re-introducing torque steer then I am ALL IN on whatever solution that is...

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