Review: 2024 Acura Integra Type S - In Defense of the Type S

[StingertimeNC]

Do you guys think the ITS has wide-spread quality issues? I do not. This forum is a very small sampling, and of course we're going to hear about everything from each other. I'm knocking on wood, but zero problems with my ITS. None!

In today's day and age every brand has plenty of issues. I think I saw a JD Power study recently and the best auto brand had like 90 problems for every 100 cars in the first year, most brands were above 100 problems per 100 cars. (just going off memory) I was very surprised at this. I think the large majority of DE5's are probably more like mine than not.

No doubt I am biased as I also love this car. I would love it more if it was easy to launch, but driving down a curvy road, or on a track, shifting between 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, and back again, is a blast.

Car and driver's lightning lap 2017 had a $81,000, Cayman S, with 350HP, 3126 lbs, (9lbs per horsepower) rear-wheel drive, dual-clutch auto, not manual, and they did a 2:58 lap on the 4.1 mile grand course at VIR.

Last year, Tony Q. editor of Car and Driver, put down a 2:58 lap on the same track in a FL5, with suspension set in comfort mode. FL5/DE5 have 10lbs/horsepower.

The fact that a front wheel drive Honda CTR can match that Cayman is amazing. Yes it's a 2017 Cayman, but still. That's 81k in 2017. I think a Cayman S today is more expensive than that even.

Side note, Car and Driver did not have Tony Q. drive the DE5 this year, and the guy that did drive it was a little skittish with it, as he had run off the track and broke a wheel while practicing for his hot lap. If they had Tony Q. drive it, I suspect the time would have been closer to the Type R's time, instead of the 3:04 they put down. (DE5 was on Pilot sprot 4S, FL% was on Cup 2's)

A 2019 BMW M2 Competition, 67k Sticker, 405 HP, 8.9 lbs per horsepower put down a 2:59 lap.

2023 BMW M2, 450+ HP, put down a 2:57 lap.

2018 Audi RS5 Coupe, $87,000, 444 HP, also 9 lbs/HP, ran a 3:03.9, essentially the same as ITS. Power and all wheel drive, (and money) did not overcome weight.

For our cars to be in that same conversation is saying something, and at a far lower price point to boot.

0-60 does not make a great sportscar. 500 hp does not make a great sportscar.

Driving dynamics have a lot to do with weight and chassis, suspension, etc. I think some folks say hey, this cars got 500 horsepower, of course it's a better sports car, but low weight combined with a great chassis and reasonable power is a better recipe. All those bimmers and audi's that weigh 4k pounds plus take something away from the feel of the car in my opinion.

By the way, I also love the CTR. I would have gladly taken either and I could have had either at MSRP. Type S came in a month before the type R did, so I went with it. ITS has a better exhaust note, the tune makes it cooler as well, HUD, a far better looking exterior, a slightly nice interior, better suspension tuning, etc. etc. (I do wish I had the CTR wing and seats though)

sorry, I'm rambling....

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[SilverRocket]

Do you guys think the ITS has wide-spread quality issues? I do not. This forum is a very small sampling, and of course we're going to hear about everything from each other. I'm knocking on wood, but zero problems with my ITS. None!

In today's day and age every brand has plenty of issues. I think I saw a JD Power study recently and the best auto brand had like 90 problems for every 100 cars in the first year, most brands were above 100 problems per 100 cars. (just going off memory) I was very surprised at this. I think the large majority of DE5's are probably more like mine than not.

I forget the statistical rate but I think it's something like 10-1 where generally (absent of a true fault/defect) there will be 10 happy silent owners of any product per complaint voiced. It's because when you're angry/disappointed, you go ot of your way to voice it and fix the issue or get compensated whereas happy owner are just busy living their lives using the product.

I do this all the time on amazon. I check how much the item has been bought versus how many reviews and then go a step further by checking specifically the 1-star reviews. So long as they are not all the same issue, and the ratio is within reason, I mostly disregard them as either unfortunate lemons or even sometime user caused problems.

 

[optronix]

look so i understand what you're saying and largely agree with you, but the one point you're missing is that you can do both. you can recognize the engineering and superior driving experience, AND you can also recognize that honda took very clear and obvious shortcuts with it in the categories of features and quality. i obviously don't think it's enough to be a deal-breaker, but it is valid criticism worth pointing out. in my opinion, and also the opinion of a lot of the automotive world, the car's MSRP is a bit too high for what you get- and that is true regardless of how you drive it, whether you drive it on windy roads, take it to a track, or just use it to run errands.

now what i don't agree with is a statement like "If you do prioritize driving dynamics though, there's not a better sports sedan out there for DOUBLE the cost." Just no man. This is a great car, but it's not punching up with cars that are double its price. Also an M3C isn't close to twice its price either lol, that would be the M5 (though not the new ones coming).

I'm not going to go back and forth with you, your mind is clearly made up. But let's just look at some very basic data- your own post history. I'm not going to waste my time pedantically dragging up other posts you've made, but you mentioned it in this thread and at least one other that I've noticed that you're not enamored with your car. I'm not going to waste much time trying to convince you what you should and shouldn't like; you must have your own reasons for buyer's remorse that could encompass many things that may or may not have to do with the ITS not fulfilling whatever need you thought it would when you bought it. I'm not here to work through that stuff- I'll leave that to a therapist.

But what I will double down on, is I've owned some of these cars you think are so great. I've owned multiple Porsches. I've owned an M4, I bought the very first model year of the F82. I've owned a B9.5 RS5, after they made some improvements. And I actually am enamored with my car, even after owning all of these "aspirational" cars that cost in many cases literally double or MORE than the ITS. And in many ways, I think it's better.

And I don't know where you get your math from, are you going off "starting at" prices? Used? This is the first one that came up as far as actual cars available: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/712102932. Yep, you could most certainly buy two ITS for $107k.

You're also not understanding what I mean by "driving dynamics". The ITS is a more engaging car to drive than a G80 M3. The only people who would say otherwise are caught up with power or badge prestige or whatever... the G80 is a very capable car, extremely fast, and sure it's a good car to drive- just not as good as the ITS. That opinion wouldn't be shared by everyone, including yourself- but just read a few articles, I'm not by myself here.

BMW decided to just make their M cars fat and throw gobs of power in them, and then not place an emphasis on inputs like steering and shifter feel (you can't even get an M3 Competition with a manual...). Sure, they'll go around the 'ring fast as hell. But my ITS and a G80 M3 parked next to each other, I'd take the ITS 10/10 times.

 

[SlippyFist]

I'm not going to go back and forth with you, your mind is clearly made up. But let's just look at some very basic data- your own post history. I'm not going to waste my time pedantically dragging up other posts you've made, but you mentioned it in this thread and at least one other that I've noticed that you're not enamored with your car. I'm not going to waste much time trying to convince you what you should and shouldn't like; you must have your own reasons for buyer's remorse that could encompass many things that may or may not have to do with the ITS not fulfilling whatever need you thought it would when you bought it. I'm not here to work through that stuff- I'll leave that to a therapist.

But what I will double down on, is I've owned some of these cars you think are so great. I've owned multiple Porsches. I've owned an M4, I bought the very first model year of the F82. I've owned a B9.5 RS5, after they made some improvements. And I actually am enamored with my car, even after owning all of these "aspirational" cars that cost in many cases literally double or MORE than the ITS. And in many ways, I think it's better.

And I don't know where you get your math from, are you going off "starting at" prices? Used? This is the first one that came up as far as actual cars available: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/712102932. Yep, you could most certainly buy two ITS for $107k.

You're also not understanding what I mean by "driving dynamics". The ITS is a more engaging car to drive than a G80 M3. The only people who would say otherwise are caught up with power or badge prestige or whatever... the G80 is a very capable car, extremely fast, and sure it's a good car to drive- just not as good as the ITS. That opinion wouldn't be shared by everyone, including yourself- but just read a few articles, I'm not by myself here.

BMW decided to just make their M cars fat and throw gobs of power in them, and then not place an emphasis on inputs like steering and shifter feel (you can't even get an M3 Competition with a manual...). Sure, they'll go around the 'ring fast as hell. But my ITS and a G80 M3 parked next to each other, I'd take the ITS 10/10 times.

Ah yes, you're not going to "waste your time pedantically dragging up my post history" but you're totally going to pedantically mention my post history anyway. Cool. Either way, yeah i'm not totally enamored with this car because i recognize that it has faults. I have no idea why you think that's so controversial. And if you wanna dig up post histories and such, you would know that multiple people from this board have already sold/traded their ITS for something else, so I'm obviously not alone. Despite that, I like the car more than you think i do, and i honestly have no idea why you're so triggered by this frankly benign opinion i have that a lot of other people in the car world also share. Also, for the record, i don't have buyer's remorse, i have post-purchase dissonance- and it sounds like you have the opposite, which would be post-purchase rationalization. if you wanna play the psychology babble game, trust me i got you homie.

But we don't even need to look at your post history to see the problem here; when you brag about being able to buy multiple porches, M cars, RS cars, etc you make it clear that you have a lot of disposable income. Someone who can buy porches probably doesn't think much about throwing $50K at a honda civic, but most car buyers don't have that luxury. $50K is a lot of money to a lot of us, and we are forced to weigh the pros and cons to analyze the value we get for the money we spend. if i had your money, i would be eyeing the ZR1 that the C8 is getting later this year lol, but that's for another topic lol.

Oh, and where did i get my math from? From BMW's fucking website -> https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m3-sedan/build-your-own.html -> and yes i confirmed it with a local inventory search. The M3 Comp starts at $80K bro, and if you're paying almost $110 for it (which is M5C money) then that is 100% a YOU problem- but either way, my statement stands, that a M3C is not even remotely close to double the cost of the ITS, and neither is an M4C or a RS5, etc. Despite everything, I'm actually inclined to agree with you that the ITS is probably more engaging to drive than those based solely on the fact that it has a manual which you can't get in those other cars; but without that i don't think that claim would stand.

Look i didn't want this to devolve into a flame war where we just lob insults at each other, but i'm a bit taken aback by your defensivenes, and honestly your posts addressing me give off the same vibes as the elitists FL5 fanatics in the CivicXI forums that you're literally complaining about here.

The last thing i'll do is leave a bit more context on where i'm coming from; I don't just feel this way about the ITS, i feel this way about most cars now. In my opinion the automotive industry as a whole is fucking us- cars are continuing to get more and more expensive while the manufacturers are taking more and more quality shortcuts so they can churn out over-priced planned obsolence products to the consumers, who have largely been bent over a barrel since Covid. And it's not just the automotive industry; i build PCs and PC hardware is also suffering from this as well. Anyway sorry for the long post.

 

[optronix]

Ah yes, you're not going to "waste your time pedantically dragging up my post history" but you're totally going to pedantically mention my post history anyway. Cool. Either way, yeah i'm not totally enamored with this car because i recognize that it has faults. I have no idea why you think that's so controversial. And if you wanna dig up post histories and such, you would know that multiple people from this board have already sold/traded their ITS for something else, so I'm obviously not alone. Despite that, I like the car more than you think i do, and i honestly have no idea why you're so triggered by this frankly benign opinion i have that a lot of other people in the car world also share. Also, for the record, i don't have buyer's remorse, i have post-purchase dissonance- and it sounds like you have the opposite, which would be post-purchase rationalization. if you wanna play the psychology babble game, trust me i got you homie.

But we don't even need to look at your post history to see the problem here; when you brag about being able to buy multiple porches, M cars, RS cars, etc you make it clear that you have a lot of disposable income. Someone who can buy porches probably doesn't think much about throwing $50K at a honda civic, but most car buyers don't have that luxury. $50K is a lot of money to a lot of us, and we are forced to weigh the pros and cons to analyze the value we get for the money we spend. if i had your money, i would be eyeing the ZR1 that the C8 is getting later this year lol, but that's for another topic lol.

Oh, and where did i get my math from? From BMW's fucking website -> https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-models/m3-sedan/build-your-own.html -> and yes i confirmed it with a local inventory search. The M3 Comp starts at $80K bro, and if you're paying almost $110 for it (which is M5C money) then that is 100% a YOU problem- but either way, my statement stands, that a M3C is not even remotely close to double the cost of the ITS, and neither is an M4C or a RS5, etc. Despite everything, I'm actually inclined to agree with you that the ITS is probably more engaging to drive than those based solely on the fact that it has a manual which you can't get in those other cars; but without that i don't think that claim would stand.

Look i didn't want this to devolve into a flame war where we just lob insults at each other, but i'm a bit taken aback by your defensivenes, and honestly your posts addressing me give off the same vibes as the elitists FL5 fanatics in the CivicXI forums that you're literally complaining about here.

The last thing i'll do is leave a bit more context on where i'm coming from; I don't just feel this way about the ITS, i feel this way about most cars now. In my opinion the automotive industry as a whole is fucking us- cars are continuing to get more and more expensive while the manufacturers are taking more and more quality shortcuts so they can churn out over-priced planned obsolence products to the consumers, who have largely been bent over a barrel since Covid. And it's not just the automotive industry; i build PCs and PC hardware is also suffering from this as well. Anyway sorry for the long post.

What I meant by not wasting time is that we're done here. Thanks for playing.

 

[Steve48]

Interesting post for sure...not that anyone is thinking about resale already, but is it a fair assumption that the Type R will have better resale value vs the Type S? Even thought both are being produced in decent quantities now?

 

[mopar_man]

The last thing i'll do is leave a bit more context on where i'm coming from; I don't just feel this way about the ITS, i feel this way about most cars now. In my opinion the automotive industry as a whole is fucking us- cars are continuing to get more and more expensive while the manufacturers are taking more and more quality shortcuts so they can churn out over-priced planned obsolence products to the consumers, who have largely been bent over a barrel since Covid. And it's not just the automotive industry; i build PCs and PC hardware is also suffering from this as well. Anyway sorry for the long post.

I feel much the same lately as well. Everything is 20-30% more than I think it should cost and it’s as if the manufacturers are somewhat half assing the product.

As for this discussion I can’t think of another car that I can buy new for $52k that checks as many boxes as this car does. Are there things I would like to have in it - heck yeah - a flat bottom heated steering wheel and drivers memory seat. Literally those two things. But I also forget about both once I get in and start driving it. It’s just so much fun and so capable.

 

[QUIKAG]

My '24 ITS has been great quality wise. No issues, rattles, squeaks, build quality is good, panel fitment good, etc.

Y'all arguing about the M3C, etc. are forgetting the Blackwings. Much better driving dynamics than the BMW's all the way up to maybe the M5CS. I have a 5BW six-speed and it's a beast and handles incredibly well, carbon ceramic brakes are huge at slowing, LT4 power is insane, TR6060 shifter is awesome, great ride quality, quiet, smooth, etc. It's downside relative to my ITS is the weight. You do feel the weight difference between the two. The 4BW drives like a slot car and feels closer, arguably better, than the ITS in turn-in, sharpness, etc.

 

[SlippyFist]

Interesting post for sure...not that anyone is thinking about resale already, but is it a fair assumption that the Type R will have better resale value vs the Type S? Even thought both are being produced in decent quantities now?

I think so; The Type-R name still carries a lot more weight (read: nostalgia) than the Type-S name.

...Y'all arguing about the M3C, etc. are forgetting the Blackwings....

I didn't, i actually thought about mentioning them. i've always been a fan of the V cars and everyone i've heard from speaks very highly of the blackwings. they're both in the price range we were arguing about too lol

 

[NoelPR]

The FL5 was initially announced as a limited production car, and most of these owners paid 10k+ MSRP to get one. Fast forward to 2024 the FL5 is readily available, and some people getting them at MSRP. Then add the DE5 to the mix, mechanically the same car, and in some aspects better, than their halo car that they drastically overpaid for. I believe this is why some FL5 owners hate on the DE5. Personally I like that they are both available, for me I’m too big for the FL5 seats, making the DE5 the right choice for me. Besides I like the DE5 looks better than the FL5, the heated seats, the better stereo also.

Originally wanted an FL5 but every time I go to see one wife complain about the wing and the seats.
She believed that they were too small for her father that sometimes ride with us.

Never bothered on bringing him to a dealer to test the seats because at that time the CTR was typically 10-15K over MSRP.

 

[optronix]

My '24 ITS has been great quality wise. No issues, rattles, squeaks, build quality is good, panel fitment good, etc.

Y'all arguing about the M3C, etc. are forgetting the Blackwings. Much better driving dynamics than the BMW's all the way up to maybe the M5CS. I have a 5BW six-speed and it's a beast and handles incredibly well, carbon ceramic brakes are huge at slowing, LT4 power is insane, TR6060 shifter is awesome, great ride quality, quiet, smooth, etc. It's downside relative to my ITS is the weight. You do feel the weight difference between the two. The 4BW drives like a slot car and feels closer, arguably better, than the ITS in turn-in, sharpness, etc.

Fair point about the Blackwings. I dismiss them because they're GMs, and the one I'd want is the 5 anyway which see everything I said about the G80 being (2x) too expensive .

BTW, just making sure:
53 x 2 == 106 evaluates to true
106 < 107? True.
"Literally twice the cost" != "nowhere close to twice the cost"? Yep, true.

The data speaks for itself.

I'd take a CT5V over a G80 all day every day and twice on Sunday. But not over my ITS. The 4V doesn't do it for me at all, but I think it's a great car nonetheless and glad it exists.

 

[SlippyFist]

BTW, just making sure:
107 == 80 evaluates to false
106 < 80? False.
80 != "literally twice the cost"? Yep, true.

The data speaks for itself.

 

[optronix]

BTW, just making sure:
107 == 80 evaluates to false
106 < 80? False.
80 != "literally twice the cost"? Yep, true.

The data speaks for itself.

Now who's being pedantic?

You said "nowhere close to twice as much". I proved you wrong by posting a car for sale that's literally twice as much.

Stop making a fool of yourself, Jesus Christ.

 

[SlippyFist]

Now who's being pedantic?

You said "nowhere close to twice as much". I proved you wrong by posting a car for sale that's literally twice as much.

Stop making a fool of yourself, Jesus Christ.

Yeah you can call me pedantic when i lower myself to going through your post history.

I said "nowhere close to twice as much" - and I'm 100% correct, backed up by the literal pricing from the manufacturer that you're performing olympic-level mental gymnastics to ignore. It's an $80K car no matter what marked up 3rd party listings you dig up to cherry pick.

I love your projection of telling me to stop making a fool of myself when you're literally tripling down on an indefensible, demonstrably wrong position. it's beyond pathetic at this point and i'm honestly embarrassed for you.

But what happened to the big man who wasn't going to waste his time anymore and was done here? Yeah your types always lie about that because you just can't help yourselves. Thanks for playing.

 

[rui]

Hi all!

I love both the Civic and the Integra. No need for hate between brothers!

I live between countries and have a CTR (which I love), in one of them. I'll be looking for a car in the US next August. If I can stretch to an ITS, I definitely will!

Now that there seem to be MSRP CTR deals to be had, price is pretty much the only caveat for me. I'd appreciate the extra sound deadening during those long roadtrips the US is so good for!

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