Type S versus new Model 3 Performance

[austinrw]

EVs have no soul to them.

Sponsored

 

[Integra23]

EVs have no soul to them.

Hyundai offering shows a fake tachometer and when you rev it plays engine sounds from the Elantra N.
It's a digital soul.

 

[akoza]

Hyundai offering shows a fake tachometer and when you rev it plays engine sounds from the Elantra N.
It's a digital soul.

Don't forget it also digitally bangs off the rev limiter and cuts power until you digitally shift. I think they nailed it in terms of driver engagement. This gives me excitement for the 3-pedal manual EV tech Toyota/Lexus has been working on.

 

[Roadtripper]

So, with the $7,500 fed tax credit, it's like $49k for a Model 3 Performance with adaptive suspension, sport seats, sport brakes and basically 500hp with 0-60 in less than 3 seconds from what I've read.

Besides range anxiety and needing superchargers on road trips, it seems like the Model 3 Performance has the Type S covered from a performance perspective.

That said, multiple laps on track would degrade the Model 3 and also the utter lack of engine sound and no shifting versus a sublime six-speed.

I'm still loving my Type S as I have 3 manual transmission cars and love them, but it's hard to deny the continued improvement of EV's.

Anyone debated or even cross shopped the new Model 3 Performance versus the Type S?

There is no denying the acceleration and improved driving dynamics of the Tesla. Driving is much more visceral to me personally. All the sensory stuff from a ICE vehicle just can’t be realistically recreated in the EV’s. The final nail however is the sheer number of the 3’s on the road. Shapeless blobs at every turn. The styling is a definite no for me, you are reduced to just one of many Borgs :-(

 

[Integra23]

There is no denying the acceleration and improved driving dynamics of the Tesla. Driving is much more visceral to me personally. All the sensory stuff from a ICE vehicle just can’t be realistically recreated in the EV’s. The final nail however is the sheer number of the 3’s on the road. Shapeless blobs at every turn. The styling is a definite no for me, you are reduced to just one of many Borgs :-(

This is true. I don't see many in my area but visiting other parts of the country they are overabundant.

 

[egxflash]

This is true. I don't see many in my area but visiting other parts of the country they are overabundant.

I'm in Southern California - they're everywhere here. Bonus is that EV infrastructure is robust our here also by the time we get an EV.

 

[E-Rod]

There is no denying the acceleration and improved driving dynamics of the Tesla. Driving is much more visceral to me personally. All the sensory stuff from a ICE vehicle just can’t be realistically recreated in the EV’s. The final nail however is the sheer number of the 3’s on the road. Shapeless blobs at every turn. The styling is a definite no for me, you are reduced to just one of many Borgs :-(

While that is true the sad reality is that most people who own and drive cars couldn’t be bothered to care. For the “normies” an EV is probably fine for 90% of their use cases. And as range and charging speed improve that will increase towards 99%.

People who enjoy driving and the experience of interacting with a machine are just different. Nuance and feel matter, the control and direct feedback mater. Even modern ICE cars abstract so much between the driver with electronics and other systems to make it feel a bit dull at times.

A friend of mine has a stage 2 Golf R. It’s wicked quick and pretty nimble but as good as the DSG is, I want a manual. It’s just not the same. He has driven my NA1 and it always puts a smile on his face. Sure it won’t blow the doors off anything nowadays but it’s super engaging and that’s what it’s all about (to me).

Technology is a double-edged sword. There’s plenty of conveniences and performance things I like. Modern ABS and EPS? Yes. Projected HUDs with integration for navigation? Absolutely. Lane keep and collision avoidance? Sure.

But then there’s overdoing it with extraneous nannying (TCS you can’t fully disable) and layers of “mother may I” (CVTs, paddles). Not a fan.

 

[bdisco]

My dad turned 80 recently and has sold off his cool old collector cars and purchased a model X.

unfortunately I was not asked which do you want to inherit the Fairlanes? The Merc? Or a Tesla…

 

[crepr12]

His cars...so

 

[optronix]

the DE5 will overheat on track before the Model 3 Performance will.

I was with you up to this point.

Even if it were true (it probably isn't... I have yet to see evidence of a DE5 overheating on track at all but this summer should give us all the data we need on that...), some tracks straight up ban electric vehicles from participation.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/motor...-are-giving-hybrids-and-evs-the-cold-shoulder

If you're keeping tally, I'm not a big fan of EVs, but I despise Tesla. But the concept is growing on me, and apparently Kia is making moves with their EVs, I personally am just not interested at this point. I'm very curious to see how Porsche handles the replacement of the 718. I feel like they wouldn't release them if they didn't get it right.

 

[ABPDE5]

If you are seriously cross-shopping a DE5 with a M3P... you may want to consider other ICE options outside of the Integra. The DE5 and M3P prioritize / are good at very different things, and if the M3P's strong points entice you, the DE5 may be disappointing.

I'm not a fan of most EVs currently available, but I think this notion that "EVs don't have soul" is nonsense.

Many things can give a car soul beyond the engine. The DE5 / FL5 are evidence of this (there's certainly nothing wrong with the tiny turbo and K20C combo, but it does not offer the raw character that older K20As or Zs did, or that other used / new options at $55k might).

EVs will bring weight distribution and center of gravity characteristics to every day cars that current super cars don't touch. You will be able (theoretically) to get a crossover with a lower center of gravity than the DE5, a 50/50 weight distribution, and RWD/AWD. From a balance / handling perspective EVs have potential that trounces ICE vehicles. Manufacturers still have the option of incorporating precise steering, and gearing and transmission options appear to be on the table (based on OEM statements).

I'm a huge high-revving NA motor fan, and no, EVs won't bring that to the table, but I am sure there will be EVs that blow us away in different ways and still offer an engaging driving experience.

 

[optronix]

I'm a huge high-revving NA motor fan, and no, EVs won't bring that to the table, but I am sure there will be EVs that blow us away in different ways and still offer an engaging driving experience.

One can only hope, but I think we're a decade off, at least for pure electric. I don't know jack or shit because I'm not plugged into this industry in any real sense aside from watching a bunch of YT vids and yucking it up with other ignorant dipshits in forums- but I have a strong sense we're about to see a renaissance of hybrid-electric vehicles. The Artura completely changed my mindset on how excited I could be for a not-exclusively-ICE vehicle... and the 992.2 911 I imagine may do that for many others.

These things definitely won't please everyone but they don't have to. The people who will continue clamoring for the glory days of ICE will just seek out their unicorn ICE cars and overpay exorbitantly for them, or they were never in the market to begin with.

We already have the aforementioned Artura and 911, as well as the E-ray and none of them appear to disappoint, at least on the surface. I'm also very much looking forward to execution from BMW M, Audi RS, and the next generation of what Honda cooks up as a replacement for our cars.

Hopefully they can all learn from Mercedes' AMG failures...

 

[Integra23]

One can only hope, but I think we're a decade off, at least for pure electric. I don't know jack or shit because I'm not plugged into this industry in any real sense aside from watching a bunch of YT vids and yucking it up with other ignorant dipshits in forums- but I have a strong sense we're about to see a renaissance of hybrid-electric vehicles. The Artura completely changed my mindset on how excited I could be for a not-exclusively-ICE vehicle... and the 992.2 911 I imagine may do that for many others.

These things definitely won't please everyone but they don't have to. The people who will continue clamoring for the glory days of ICE will just seek out their unicorn ICE cars and overpay exorbitantly for them, or they were never in the market to begin with.

We already have the aforementioned Artura and 911, as well as the E-ray and none of them appear to disappoint, at least on the surface. I'm also very much looking forward to execution from BMW M, Audi RS, and the next generation of what Honda cooks up as a replacement for our cars.

Hopefully they can all learn from Mercedes' AMG failures...

I agree. Hybrids are the near term solutions. Decent performance gains, minimal changes to vehicle weight, and practical.
Rear electric motors in our car would be a great offering.

 

[egxflash]

I'm a huge high-revving NA motor fan, and no, EVs won't bring that to the table, but I am sure there will be EVs that blow us away in different ways and still offer an engaging driving experience.

It's kind of funny because a lot of people in here (as well as the CTR forum) put these cars on such a lofty pedestal and mind you, I think the car is great, but to me, there's something special about revving out an N/A motor.

 

[Clark_Kent]

It's kind of funny because a lot of people in here (as well as the CTR forum) put these cars on such a lofty pedestal and mind you, I think the car is great, but to me, there's something special about revving out an N/A motor.

I agree there is something extraordinary about a high-revving naturally aspirated motor. What's even better is one that is also mid-engine. The conundrum is that in present day, there are few new(er) options and none of them are "affordable". Porsche 992 GT3, Porsche 992 GT3 RS, Porsche 718 Cayman GT4, Porsche 718 Cayman Spyder, Porsche 718 Spyder RS, Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 RS, Audi R8 GT, McLaren Arturo are the cars that immediately come to mind that tick both boxes - N/A and rev ≥ 8,000 RPMs. The number reaches an infinitesimal figure if you add a manual gearbox to the consideration set.

Sponsored