Oil comparaisons

[ElpacoSV]

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[SilverRocket]

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum for me. I have 2 jugs waiting for the first oil change later this year. Amsoil migh be a little bit better, but not by enough to justiy the insane cost difference. With Canadian Tire cash back + Pennzoil mail in rebate, I got two jugs, about 9 Quarts for $50 CAD total (37 USD).

 

[bvanlieu]

when we see thumbnails like that we know its youtube click bait.

His info-mercial style is very annoying, takes away from the data and experiment he's trying to represent which is OK but folks in this industry will also poke holes in the methodology. My engineering is not in materials or oils, but I've listened to enough experts speak to know when to be a smidge skeptical and not go to absolutes of performance so soon

If you skip to the tables you see the add packages are all in the same ballpark, along with TBN. But even then data can be skewed.

Example:

You can't read into the motocraft has 'more impurities' when the table is 0 for everything, and it has 1 PPM for a *few* values. These are trace values and only one sample not a trend.

He also singles out the detergent packages in absolute numbers, but they are packages and they work together to hold up over time: some hold up better then other hence the forumula of what the engineers work on over years, so while having a good starting add pack is nice, its not the end all be all (Motorcraft oil is a solid product too)

For the geeks out there, running a UOA and getting trends on your engine and your product is interesting and can give you insight into how long the packages are being effective (to extend your drain interval perhaps).

Then again for the cost of the UOA, you can snag Valvoline on sale (not picking on them as they can be on sale more frequently, not a bad product at all) and simply replace all the add packages in 1/2 the oil drain interval.

The best thing you can do if concerned about using a 'best' oil for these longer factory drain intervals is simply take the cheapest SN rated oil and change it more often...only pushing to extremes do nuances in add packages show up in oil performance and even then, if they meet all the ratings before hand, they all stand up relatively well.

 

[SilverRocket]

when we see thumbnails like that we know its youtube click bait.

His info-mercial style is very annoying, takes away from the data and experiment he's trying to represent which is OK but folks in this industry will also poke holes in the methodology. My engineering is not in materials or oils, but I've listened to enough experts speak to know when to be a smidge skeptical and not go to absolutes of performance so soon

If you skip to the tables you see the add packages are all in the same ballpark, along with TBN. But even then data can be skewed.

Example:

You can't read into the motocraft has 'more impurities' when the table is 0 for everything, and it has 1 PPM for a *few* values. These are trace values and only one sample not a trend.

He also singles out the detergent packages in absolute numbers, but they are packages and they work together to hold up over time: some hold up better then other hence the forumula of what the engineers work on over years, so while having a good starting add pack is nice, its not the end all be all (Motorcraft oil is a solid product too)

For the geeks out there, running a UOA and getting trends on your engine and your product is interesting and can give you insight into how long the packages are being effective (to extend your drain interval perhaps).

Then again for the cost of the UOA, you can snag Valvoline on sale (not picking on them as they can be on sale more frequently, not a bad product at all) and simply replace all the add packages in 1/2 the oil drain interval.

The best thing you can do if concerned about using a 'best' oil for these longer factory drain intervals is simply take the cheapest SN rated oil and change it more often...only pushing to extremes do nuances in add packages show up in oil performance and even then, if they meet all the ratings before hand, they all stand up relatively well.

Project Farm is a balance of fun to watch while remaining relatively informative. His specialty is more power tools and standard products, oil is a bit more nuanced but he did it for his fan base who kept asking. If you want to geek out, there are other channels, like the motor oil geek, who's actually an expert in the matter.



Anyway, what sold me was the resistance to evaporation. It means less carbon build up on the DI system which in combination with a DI cleaning product every oil change should keep the engine fairly gunk free.

 

[NoelPR]

I don't care. I just pick the cheapest synthetic oil from a well established brand name that has a discount that day.
So far has worked fine with me.

PD: I like project farm videos but I just skip to the end to see the results.

 

[lumper]

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum for me. I have 2 jugs waiting for the first oil change later this year. Amsoil migh be a little bit better, but not by enough to justiy the insane cost difference. With Canadian Tire cash back + Pennzoil mail in rebate, I got two jugs, about 9 Quarts for $50 CAD total (37 USD).

I've always been an Amsoil guy, AMSOIL synthetic in my bikes and cars and trucks, never any issues.

 

[jayy_swish]

Random info, Honda OEM oil is made by Philips 66. Even has the same bottle. Philips makes most if not all the different car manufacturers 0w-20 oil here in the US. Idemitsu use to be the pre fill out of the Japanese factories, not sure about now.

 

[bpebler]

@Car00071 - maybe one of these were the Pennzoil videos you mentioned?

 

[Car00071]

@Car00071 - maybe one of these were the Pennzoil videos you mentioned?

Yep that’s the one! Thanks!

 

[crepr12]

pick one....jmho

 

[Wolfnman2000]

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum for me. I have 2 jugs waiting for the first oil change later this year. Amsoil migh be a little bit better, but not by enough to justiy the insane cost difference. With Canadian Tire cash back + Pennzoil mail in rebate, I got two jugs, about 9 Quarts for $50 CAD total (37 USD).

I don't know how pricing works in Canadia (joke on purpose), but Amsoil has several different product lines from the top tier to the OE line. Since I own and DIY service three cars, I so far have managed to get free renewal of their Preferred Member program which gives a healthy discount. I order direct on the website. I also buy the gallon jugs by the 4 gallon cases which all produces the lowest cost possible.

In doing so I pay the following:
Amsoil OE (API certified for using inside warranty): $6.94/qt

The two jugs of about 9 quarts of Pennzoil at $37 is $4.11/qt

So yeah quite a difference there. At 5.7 qts per OCI the price difference for me would be:
Amsoil OE: $39.56
Pennzoil: $23.43
A difference of $16.13 per oil change. Since I do 5k mile OCIs and I drive about 10k miles per year. That would work out to a savings of $32.26 per year, or to put it another way, about half what I spend for a single meal on my wife and I.

In that I plan to own the car for 20 years, that would save me $645.20 over that time period.

So the question becomes, is there a value proposition there where spending the cost of a nice steak dinner once per year worth whatever amount of better protection exists with Amsoil over some other brand? Plenty of data out there on the different tests, like NOACK Volatility or the tests for LSPI in which Amsoil typically beats anything else. Are those things worth it?

I would say, depends on the person. Different people prioritize their money expenditures and perceptions of "worth it" in different ways.

Not arguing or disagreeing with you. Each makes their own decisions in this regard.

 

[SilverRocket]

I don't know how pricing works in Canadia (joke on purpose), but Amsoil has several different product lines from the top tier to the OE line. Since I own and DIY service three cars, I so far have managed to get free renewal of their Preferred Member program which gives a healthy discount. I order direct on the website. I also buy the gallon jugs by the 4 gallon cases which all produces the lowest cost possible.

In doing so I pay the following:
Amsoil OE (API certified for using inside warranty): $6.94/qt

The two jugs of about 9 quarts of Pennzoil at $37 is $4.11/qt

So yeah quite a difference there. At 5.7 qts per OCI the price difference for me would be:
Amsoil OE: $39.56
Pennzoil: $23.43
A difference of $16.13 per oil change. Since I do 5k mile OCIs and I drive about 10k miles per year. That would work out to a savings of $32.26 per year, or to put it another way, about half what I spend for a single meal on my wife and I.

In that I plan to own the car for 20 years, that would save me $645.20 over that time period.

So the question becomes, is there a value proposition there where spending the cost of a nice steak dinner once per year worth whatever amount of better protection exists with Amsoil over some other brand? Plenty of data out there on the different tests, like NOACK Volatility or the tests for LSPI in which Amsoil typically beats anything else. Are those things worth it?

I would say, depends on the person. Different people prioritize their money expenditures and perceptions of "worth it" in different ways.

Not arguing or disagreeing with you. Each makes their own decisions in this regard.

But your premise is flawed in that those tests usually compare it to bottom of the barrel oils to get the "75% better...", it's purely marketing. In essence you'd need a study comparing a top quality competitor to Amsoil and demonstrating how much better performance over those it provides, that's what I have yet to see. Given my current knowledge, the extra spend gives minimal return.

Given an analogy to make my position more clear, imagine there was an option ($100) to make the ITS accelerate 0.0001 seconds faster 0-60. Would you pay that $100 or tell them to F'off? Even if $100 is chump change in the grand scope of the $53k MSRP, most people would tell them to fly a kite because the increase in return is minimal. Alternatively, people might pay an extra $2000, to get half a second performance (many here have indirectly through mods) but there in lies the value proposition one needs to assess for themselves.

Back to oil, the nuance in this discussion is why you think Amsoil would provide any noticeably better protection than specifically Pennzoil Ultra Platinum to justify that you're not just throwing extra money away, no matter how small the amount.

Also just like the huge difference in MSRP between us, Canadians have some benefits in consumer prices and other massive negatives, example gas prices. Amsoil falls in the later.

https://www.amsoil.ca/p/amsoil-signature-series-0w-20-100-synthetic-motor-oil-asm/?code=ASM1GC-CA

If I was to play along and give you the best benefit of the doubt, I can only get down to $15.93 CAD/quart but most don't have that luxury. In reality I'd be buying a big jug and two small ones without the partner discount and it'd be $17.56CAD/qt.

Meanwhile I used a publicly available (free) discount program to get the Pennzoil UP at $5.55CAD/qt.

From a Canadia perspective my conclusion is that there is no way the Amsoil is providing me 2-3 times the protection and come 20 years from now, the difference in engines will be negligeable between the two.

I won't argue the supremacy of Amsoil, only that there are other great options that are 95%+ its performance, for a fraction of the cost (at least in Canada). Personally I always try to aim for this spot in the performance to value curve and Amsoil is definitely not there.

 

[Wolfnman2000]

But your premise is flawed in that those tests usually compare it to bottom of the barrel oils to get the "75% better...", it's purely marketing. In essence you'd need a study comparing a top quality competitor to Amsoil and demonstrating how much better performance over those it provides, that's what I have yet to see. Given my current knowledge, the extra spend gives minimal return.

Given an analogy to make my position more clear, imagine there was an option ($100) to make the ITS accelerate 0.0001 seconds faster 0-60. Would you pay that $100 or tell them to F'off? Even if $100 is chump change in the grand scope of the $53k MSRP, most people would tell them to fly a kite because the increase in return is minimal. Alternatively, people might pay an extra $2000, to get half a second performance (many here have indirectly through mods) but there in lies the value proposition one needs to assess for themselves.

Back to oil, the nuance in this discussion is why you think Amsoil would provide any noticeably better protection than specifically Pennzoil Ultra Platinum to justify that you're not just throwing extra money away, no matter how small the amount.

Also just like the huge difference in MSRP between us, Canadians have some benefits in consumer prices and other massive negatives, example gas prices. Amsoil falls in the later.

https://www.amsoil.ca/p/amsoil-signature-series-0w-20-100-synthetic-motor-oil-asm/?code=ASM1GC-CA

If I was to play along and give you the best benefit of the doubt, I can only get down to $15.93 CAD/quart but most don't have that luxury. In reality I'd be buying a big jug and two small ones without the partner discount and it'd be $17.56CAD/qt.

Meanwhile I used a publicly available (free) discount program to get the Pennzoil UP at $5.55CAD/qt.

From a Canadia perspective my conclusion is that there is no way the Amsoil is providing me 2-3 times the protection and come 20 years from now, the difference in engines will be negligeable between the two.

I won't argue the supremacy of Amsoil, only that there are other great options that are 95%+ its performance, for a fraction of the cost (at least in Canada). Personally I always try to aim for this spot in the performance to value curve and Amsoil is definitely not there.

I wasn't referring to Amsoil marketing tests. There is testing data out there against top level brands. I agree I dislike the common marketing xx% better blah blah than blah blah that Amsoil, Castrol, and well everyone does.

I'm referring to objective testing data, like Amsoil experiences 0 events of LSPI, exceeding the required DEXOS standard that permits some number to occur within a given amount of miles/time and which other top brands pass the test but with events of LSPI. Or other testing data like the aforementioned NOACK volatility data against other top level brands (Royal Purple, Redline, Mobil 1, etc). I don't recall seeing PUP in the data specifically and I've wanted to see it. I like data.

You compared apples to oranges with your pricing. I was using Amsoil OE not Amsoil SS. Very different price point and product. It's more analogous to compare the API certified product to PUP, another API certified product.

I'm not arguing that PUP is or isn't better than Amsoil. Nor am I arguing to what level it is or isn't better. I honestly simply do not know since I have been unable to find the same test data as I have found for other top brands. PUP may be the best thing ever, beating Amsoil and at a fraction of the cost, but I haven't seen the data to support. I'm pointing out that there is objective, non-marketing data that exists for what Amsoil does, and that the perception of this insanely expensive boutique brand isn't completely accurate. I changed my oil filter choice from Amsoil to Purolator Boss once I saw compelling test data the convinced me it was better for my application.

Will we see any appreciable differences at 200k Bald Eagle Distance Units between our cars if we're both servicing them at the same OCIs? I honestly don't know. My gut says, probably nothing more than our respective "butt dynos" might suggest.

However, for the pricing I can get in the US market, it isn't as good as you can get on PUP, so for me the math makes even less sense. It's like the cost of a McDonald's Big Mac (or Tim Hortons equivalent maple syrup covered hoser sliders?) difference to use Amsoil OE over Kirkland, Amazon Basics, or even Mobil 1 from Walmart ($25/5 qt). However, you are still comparing apples to oranges if you're looking at Signature Series.

As I said before, everyone makes their own decision on where that value proposition exists.

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