About to do first oil change

[bvanlieu]

I want the car to run as well as it can, for as long as it can, and maybe it is unnecessary, but to me, it is how I do it. I think new oil runs cooler smoother has its full viscosity, etc.

If they added some additives, they are going to be lost at the first oil change anyway, why do we believe that if we wait 4k more miles somehow that would be better?
I just don't buy it.

Again, change away I get it...feels good and is fun, but do take care not to rationalize it based on mis-information or conjecture. SCIENCE! is what we need

Lot of engineering goes into the oils we consume for cars & trucks. They are engineered to meet a lot of *very difficult* specs, just look them up.

If the factory fill has a heavy Moly add pack, thats there to help break in the engine over time, and that would be a good reason to leave it in there, or if you feel you must change it, replace it with a similar oil that has a high moly pack for a few K more.

Honda Europe sells a 2.0 full synthetic for the EU market, and the oil geeks noticed its add pack look very similar to the high moly Idemitsu zepro. The Zepro can be found in the US, but also not inexpensive.

FWIW, a 2020 Accord 2.0T UOA I did find had a high moly level that was consistent with the Honda 2.0 UOA.

Yes...I have gone down the oil analysis rabbit hole many times, usually not under the influence of a good bourbon but not always.

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[egxflash]

Again, change away I get it...feels good and is fun, but do take care not to rationalize it based on mis-information or conjecture. SCIENCE! is what we need

Lot of engineering goes into the oils we consume for cars & trucks. They are engineered to meet a lot of *very difficult* specs, just look them up.

If the factory fill has a heavy Moly add pack, thats there to help break in the engine over time, and that would be a good reason to leave it in there, or if you feel you must change it, replace it with a similar oil that has a high moly pack for a few K more.

Honda Europe sells a 2.0 full synthetic for the EU market, and the oil geeks noticed its add pack look very similar to the high moly Idemitsu zepro. The Zepro can be found in the US, but also not inexpensive.

FWIW, a 2020 Accord 2.0T UOA I did find had a high moly level that was consistent with the Honda 2.0 UOA.

Yes...I have gone down the oil analysis rabbit hole many times, usually not under the influence of a good bourbon but not always.

Curious, what did you do/plan to do for the first change?

 

[bvanlieu]

Sure.

TLDR: Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (or ESP 0w20) during 4/50 warranty every 5-6K which should be about 1/2 the MM distance. After warranty likely. move to a 30 grade. Both of these M1 products are stout, ESP arguably a smidge better but also more expensive and harder to find in 5gal (Wally world has EP on sale in 3 5 gal boxes, I like a deal like the next fella. EP/ESP bit higher HTHS then M1 AFE)

Long version.

This is my 4th factory, and 5th turbo car I have owned with me driving each car 100-170K myself, all sold working well with no turbo related issues. Whats the 5th? 92 miata that I installed a FM2 sleeve bearing TD04 with 80k on it. Miss that car <sniff>

We've come a long way since oil (only) cooled turbos in a chrysler. There is not a one size fits all equation per car. Some cars have large sumps ( BMW's 7-8 liters), some small (the WRX wasn't very big) and the tribologists have done great things since simple SJ/SL API to all the ACEA, MB/Porsche/etc.. standards they have now to allow for longer OCIs: plenty of supporting UOA to show oils working fine at 10K+ in many PCMO applications.

All that being said, for a turbo application, HTHS is important when running a little spinning thing like a turbo. I am a bit skeptical with the 0w20 Honda USA specifies, especially since EU specifies a 30 grade for the FL5 (same powerplant as we know). Honda went to lengths to acknowledge its a special car, not built for economy yet they specify only 0w20? for a 20+ PSI snail on a small 4 banger? Hmmm.

Part of that could simply be to meet the longer, more stringent EU rules for OCI etc...they do want something that will hold up and not sheer below a 20 grade, and the only 20g allowed in EU is the fancy Honda 2.0.

And that's bottom line: if you want to run 10-12K OCI, then use a good oil that holds up and for that I would prefer to run a 30 grade that gives more ability for longer term sheer down to a 20w, but even then there are variable HTSH within the spec for a 30 or 40 grade (why some often refer to M1 0w40 euro as a strong 30 grade since it shears down to it quickly and stays there like a champ)

YMMV...and I encourage you to go down your own rabbit hole if you so desire, with a good sipper of your choice.

 

[optronix]

Sure.

TLDR: Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (or ESP 0w20) during 4/50 warranty every 5-6K which should be about 1/2 the MM distance. After warranty likely. move to a 30 grade. Both of these M1 products are stout, ESP arguably a smidge better but also more expensive and harder to find in 5gal (Wally world has EP on sale in 3 5 gal boxes, I like a deal like the next fella. EP/ESP bit higher HTHS then M1 AFE)

Long version.

This is my 4th factory, and 5th turbo car I have owned with me driving each car 100-170K myself, all sold working well with no turbo related issues. Whats the 5th? 92 miata that I installed a FM2 sleeve bearing TD04 with 80k on it. Miss that car <sniff>

We've come a long way since oil (only) cooled turbos in a chrysler. There is not a one size fits all equation per car. Some cars have large sumps ( BMW's 7-8 liters), some small (the WRX wasn't very big) and the tribologists have done great things since simple SJ/SL API to all the ACEA, MB/Porsche/etc.. standards they have now to allow for longer OCIs: plenty of supporting UOA to show oils working fine at 10K+ in many PCMO applications.

All that being said, for a turbo application, HTHS is important when running a little spinning thing like a turbo. I am a bit skeptical with the 0w20 Honda USA specifies, especially since EU specifies a 30 grade for the FL5 (same powerplant as we know). Honda went to lengths to acknowledge its a special car, not built for economy yet they specify only 0w20? for a 20+ PSI snail on a small 4 banger? Hmmm.

Part of that could simply be to meet the longer, more stringent EU rules for OCI etc...they do want something that will hold up and not sheer below a 20 grade, and the only 20g allowed in EU is the fancy Honda 2.0.

And that's bottom line: if you want to run 10-12K OCI, then use a good oil that holds up and for that I would prefer to run a 30 grade that gives more ability for longer term sheer down to a 20w, but even then there are variable HTSH within the spec for a 30 or 40 grade (why some often refer to M1 0w40 euro as a strong 30 grade since it shears down to it quickly and stays there like a champ)

YMMV...and I encourage you to go down your own rabbit hole if you so desire, with a good sipper of your choice.

Oil nerds are the best, and worst, at the same time. I admire their... patience, though.

For me, I started to realize I didn't need to change the oil every 3k when synthetic oil became a thing, circa ~2001 or so. Similar studies- that a solid synthetic will essentially provide the same or usually better "liquidy effects" than conventional oil... after 10k miles.

Changing oil at 1k never made sense to me, but I did it when the manufacturer asked for it... and that's all I'll continue to say on the topic.

 

[egxflash]

Sure.

TLDR: Mobil 1 EP 0w20 (or ESP 0w20) during 4/50 warranty every 5-6K which should be about 1/2 the MM distance. After warranty likely. move to a 30 grade. Both of these M1 products are stout, ESP arguably a smidge better but also more expensive and harder to find in 5gal (Wally world has EP on sale in 3 5 gal boxes, I like a deal like the next fella. EP/ESP bit higher HTHS then M1 AFE)

Long version.

This is my 4th factory, and 5th turbo car I have owned with me driving each car 100-170K myself, all sold working well with no turbo related issues. Whats the 5th? 92 miata that I installed a FM2 sleeve bearing TD04 with 80k on it. Miss that car <sniff>

We've come a long way since oil (only) cooled turbos in a chrysler. There is not a one size fits all equation per car. Some cars have large sumps ( BMW's 7-8 liters), some small (the WRX wasn't very big) and the tribologists have done great things since simple SJ/SL API to all the ACEA, MB/Porsche/etc.. standards they have now to allow for longer OCIs: plenty of supporting UOA to show oils working fine at 10K+ in many PCMO applications.

All that being said, for a turbo application, HTHS is important when running a little spinning thing like a turbo. I am a bit skeptical with the 0w20 Honda USA specifies, especially since EU specifies a 30 grade for the FL5 (same powerplant as we know). Honda went to lengths to acknowledge its a special car, not built for economy yet they specify only 0w20? for a 20+ PSI snail on a small 4 banger? Hmmm.

Part of that could simply be to meet the longer, more stringent EU rules for OCI etc...they do want something that will hold up and not sheer below a 20 grade, and the only 20g allowed in EU is the fancy Honda 2.0.

And that's bottom line: if you want to run 10-12K OCI, then use a good oil that holds up and for that I would prefer to run a 30 grade that gives more ability for longer term sheer down to a 20w, but even then there are variable HTSH within the spec for a 30 or 40 grade (why some often refer to M1 0w40 euro as a strong 30 grade since it shears down to it quickly and stays there like a champ)

YMMV...and I encourage you to go down your own rabbit hole if you so desire, with a good sipper of your choice.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I run Mobil1 AFE on my truck, following the Chevy oil % which comes out to about 8k every 11 months.

My plan for the ITS was to run Mobil 1 EP but I'm considering Pennzoil Ultra Platinum after reading great things about it. I don't think I'll be putting on more than 5-6k a year on the ITS so I was going to go 5-6k and not let it go >1 yr between OCIs.

 

[Needs3Pedals]

every 5-6K which should be about 1/2 the MM distance.

I’m at 20% on the MM with only 3700 miles on the clock. I was easy on it for the first 600 miles but I’ve been getting it ever since then. I think the MM going so quickly is mostly related to my drives being short. I do make sure I’m warmed up before I really lean into it.

I actually did a DIY oil change at 2000 miles but didn’t reset the MM. Acura is changing the oil this Friday. Real curious what the MM will do this time. I may daily the car some which will lengthen up my drives and probably cause a more normal MM burn rate.

 

[bvanlieu]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

I run Mobil1 AFE on my truck, following the Chevy oil % which comes out to about 8k every 11 months.

My plan for the ITS was to run Mobil 1 EP but I'm considering Pennzoil Ultra Platinum after reading great things about it. I don't think I'll be putting on more than 5-6k a year on the ITS so I was going to go 5-6k and not let it go >1 yr between OCIs.

SOPUS makes good products, and Ultra is well...ultra. Its been reformulated a few times, I used it on my 370z 10 years ago when it was just named 'Ultra' and hard to find, just a bad name to boot as people equated Platinum to being the top line and Ultra being non-descriptive.

If the price delta was meh I'd still run it, but the regular Platinum is plenty good and also a GTL product. We are picking nits here as ultra does score better on some wear tests but we are talking a few PPM.

Branding is something that does stick even with oils. There is a reason Mobil 1 is so well known. Heck I have been using it since getting 6 packs at BJs for $25 back in the day in all its PAO glory. It was simple, you had 3 choices 5/30, 5/40 and 5/50 for you freaks out there. Then there was the hotness of German Castrol before the advent of the Group III HC 'synthetics'.

I admit to being a smidge partial to Mobil 1 but the sale price pushed me over the edge. I've run SOPUS, Motul, Liquimoly,Castrol,Mobil in various cars : so many quality products out there.

 

[bvanlieu]

I’m at 20% on the MM with only 3700 miles on the clock. I was easy on it for the first 600 miles but I’ve been getting it ever since then. I think the MM going so quickly is mostly related to my drives being short. I do make sure I’m warmed up before I really lean into it.

I actually did a DIY oil change at 2000 miles but didn’t reset the MM. Acura is changing the oil this Friday. Real curious what the MM will do this time. I may daily the car some which will lengthen up my drives and probably cause a more normal MM burn rate.

Right I should have qualified 1/2 the distance I would expect given my usage which has plenty of HWY miles and runs where the car warms up fully.

MM algorithms are pretty refined now a days, I think you are on the more conservative end of the curve, where as I expect mine to be 10K+ before hitting 20%.

 

[lumper]

Again, change away I get it...feels good and is fun, but do take care not to rationalize it based on mis-information or conjecture. SCIENCE! is what we need

Lot of engineering goes into the oils we consume for cars & trucks. They are engineered to meet a lot of *very difficult* specs, just look them up.

If the factory fill has a heavy Moly add pack, thats there to help break in the engine over time, and that would be a good reason to leave it in there, or if you feel you must change it, replace it with a similar oil that has a high moly pack for a few K more.

Honda Europe sells a 2.0 full synthetic for the EU market, and the oil geeks noticed its add pack look very similar to the high moly Idemitsu zepro. The Zepro can be found in the US, but also not inexpensive.

FWIW, a 2020 Accord 2.0T UOA I did find had a high moly level that was consistent with the Honda 2.0 UOA.

Yes...I have gone down the oil analysis rabbit hole many times, usually not under the influence of a good bourbon but not always.

Well, I haven't done it yet, I wanted to get a new jack first, which I did today, so Sunday or Monday I am going to have some time and I think I will dop it then, around 1400 miles.
I also haven't gone over 5k rpms yet in the car either, I want to wait until after I do the first oil change, so this weekend can be a little fun, I can change the oil drive it another few hundred miles and then finally open it up somewhere safe and stretch its legs around 7k rpms.

 

[egxflash]

Well, I haven't done it yet, I wanted to get a new jack first, which I did today, so Sunday or Monday I am going to have some time and I think I will dop it then, around 1400 miles.
I also haven't gone over 5k rpms yet in the car either, I want to wait until after I do the first oil change, so this weekend can be a little fun, I can change the oil drive it another few hundred miles and then finally open it up somewhere safe and stretch its legs around 7k rpms.

What kind of jack did you get?

 

[lumper]

What kind of jack did you get?

long reach low profile 3 ton Daytona.

 

[egxflash]

long reach low profile 3 ton Daytona.

Gotcha - thanks!

You’ll have to let me know if that reaches the front jack point. It’s pretty far back there.

I’m not sure if even with a long reach low profile you’d still need ramps. I’m weighing picking up race ramps

 

[lumper]

Gotcha - thanks!

You’ll have to let me know if that reaches the front jack point. It’s pretty far back there.

I’m not sure if even with a long reach low profile you’d still need ramps. I’m weighing picking up race ramps

I picked up low profile ramps, they will lift the car about 3" when in use.

 

[egxflash]

I picked up low profile ramps, they will lift the car about 3" when in use.

Gotcha so you're using ramp with jack in tandem?

Mind linking which ones you have? Both jack and ramps?

 

[lumper]

Gotcha so you're using ramp with jack in tandem?

Mind linking which ones you have? Both jack and ramps?

Sure, they are small ramps,. maybe 3" lift is all, plan to see if the jack clears the car alone or not, if not then ill use the ramps as well, I haven't done it yet so...
Ramps: Amazon.com: Tomioka Racing Super Slopes 2 Pack - Low Profile Car Ramps Perfect for Low Cars, Raise Your Car Up for Floor Jacks, Race Truck Vehicle Ramps for Oil Changes, Lift, Maintenance : Automotive

Jack : Daytona™ Long Reach Low Profile Heavy Duty Car Jack (harborfreight.com)

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