Back on Track

[Victorofhavoc]

Hey, what would you recommend as far as Brake pads for light/medium track duty? stock rotors and RBF 660 fluid.

Are you looking to also drive them on the street for some time or just swap on before going to the track and bed in by driving there?

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[StingertimeNC]

I typically like to put them on the car a few days before and try to bed them a bit. I started with Hawk DTC 60 front and DTC 30 rear, then went to DTC 30 front and Hawk HPS 5.0 rear. I kind of feel like when they're too aggressive I never get them bedded in and always end up with pad smear. Then I'm pulsing for the next day and a half. Hate it when that happens. I see a couple Endless Pad options, but not sure if they're the right size, but they say you can go light track duty but also daily them. I also asked @Zygrene what endless pads he's running and what size he's getting. I wouldn't mind something I can just leave on the car. I'm thinking of going Hawk HPS 5.0 both front and rear this next trip up. I probably drive the car to about 90% of its capability and feel like I'm always a bit overkill on pad selection. I know I can daily the Hawk HPS 5.0's too, as I ran them on my previous car.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I typically like to put them on the car a few days before and try to bed them a bit. I started with Hawk DTC 60 front and DTC 30 rear, then went to DTC 30 front and Hawk HPS 5.0 rear. I kind of feel like when they're too aggressive I never get them bedded in and always end up with pad smear. Then I'm pulsing for the next day and a half. Hate it when that happens. I see a couple Endless Pad options, but not sure if they're the right size, but they say you can go light track duty but also daily them. I also asked @Zygrene what endless pads he's running and what size he's getting. I wouldn't mind something I can just leave on the car. I'm thinking of going Hawk HPS 5.0 both front and rear this next trip up. I probably drive the car to about 90% of its capability and feel like I'm always a bit overkill on pad selection. I know I can daily the Hawk HPS 5.0's too, as I ran them on my previous car.

I personally haven't had great results with hawk pads. They've usually been too aggressive on rotors and too ready to overheat and glaze up. Ymmv, but the hps5. 0 to me is still very much an autox pad.

When it comes to swapping a street and track pad I like to stay within the same brand for both, but only because my theory on it is that their bonding agent for the pad material is similar between the pad range. I like carbotech pads a lot, gloc is basically the same thing, and endless makes good pads. Project mu isn't bad, and ferodo/pagid is basically the creme of the crop. If you're planning on swapping I'd make sure to swap at least the day before and then take the first sessions to carefully increase pedal pressure and run the last two laps with no brake pressure at all.

If you're planning dual duty at all times, the ferodo ds2500 is my favorite. They dust for sure, but they are wonderful on track and one of the few pads that doesn't melt the bonding agent even when overheated. Project mu club pads and pfc track pads are also decent. Only the ds2500 are good in the cold too, though. A lot of pads sacrifice the very cold weather and wet performance in search for high heat resistance.

Also, I've had okay luck with rbf660 and Castrol srf. I find them to be a bit too sensitive. Humid days really wreck their performance. Rbf600 has generally performed better for me, as has ate super blue and super amber. That and ti brake shims are very helpful. The rbf600 is well dailied as well.

 

[StingertimeNC]

I personally haven't had great results with hawk pads. They've usually been too aggressive on rotors and too ready to overheat and glaze up. Ymmv, but the hps5. 0 to me is still very much an autox pad.

When it comes to swapping a street and track pad I like to stay within the same brand for both, but only because my theory on it is that their bonding agent for the pad material is similar between the pad range. I like carbotech pads a lot, gloc is basically the same thing, and endless makes good pads. Project mu isn't bad, and ferodo/pagid is basically the creme of the crop. If you're planning on swapping I'd make sure to swap at least the day before and then take the first sessions to carefully increase pedal pressure and run the last two laps with no brake pressure at all.

If you're planning dual duty at all times, the ferodo ds2500 is my favorite. They dust for sure, but they are wonderful on track and one of the few pads that doesn't melt the bonding agent even when overheated. Project mu club pads and pfc track pads are also decent. Only the ds2500 are good in the cold too, though. A lot of pads sacrifice the very cold weather and wet performance in search for high heat resistance.

Also, I've had okay luck with rbf660 and Castrol srf. I find them to be a bit too sensitive. Humid days really wreck their performance. Rbf600 has generally performed better for me, as has ate super blue and super amber. That and ti brake shims are very helpful. The rbf600 is well dailied as well.

Thanks man, I'll look into some of those options. Starting prep for the next event.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

We visited the nation's tallest monument, the st Louis arch, this holiday weekend. My wife and son were too afraid to ride the ride unfortunately, so I didn't get to go either, but it's well worth the visit if you haven't been!

Also got some ti shims and brake fluid for the upcoming testing day. The paragon shims are nice, but their texture is pretty rough and they're pretty scratched up. It's not a visible part so it is what it is, but I expected at least just a smooth flat finish. I typically bought yperion brand shims before from a sketchy Russian dude, but that was pre war days. Now those same shims run for far more. They had more options for thicknesses, and these paragon shims are about right in the middle of the yperion options. The fun thing about ti shims is seeing where and how they change color as they get hot!!

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Carbotech xp10s came in! These pads will match up well to a 300tw or 200tw tire. They could tolerate a 100tw semi-slick track day tire, but that'll push the edge with a car as heavy as the its. In that case xp12 would probably be better, and for a true slick like a Hoosier, pirelli, or Michelin, the xp24 or xp12 would be the right move. I've been running carbotechs for years and love them.

I've also got some wheels on the way that should arrive tomorrow!!

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Winter and stock class wheels came in! I haven't decided if I'm going to do any autox. It's been about 4 years since the last event I did. I figured these wheels could cover it if I wanted to do it, but they'll also be awesome for winter.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Dropped off the car at the dealer today to address several rattles. The tech rode along with me and was able to find the faint rattle pretty quickly being behind the infotainment screen and he was surprised it's there after they did the civic infotainment tsb. It seems that may be contributing to the under dash rattle I get at higher rpm, but we'll see. He agreed that the steering wheel ticking sounds like the cable reel going bad.

They're also doing the oil now that the car is at 1750mi and will be seeing the track on the 23rd. I'm having them take a sample of the used oil and the clean oil going in to send off to the lab.

I got a 24 rdx as a loaner. Plenty of rattles in it and it has the key fob rattle as well. I fixed the key fob rattle for them, which I'm sure they won't notice and whoever ends up buying the car will never notice but it eased my ocd for a minute. Brake feel in that car is really bad, though. Weak pressure, spongey feel, inconsistent pedal pressure, and just no feedback. It's amazing how much of a polar opposite to the its it is considering the brakes actually feel pretty great in the its.

@optronix, I also asked the tech about doing the alignment and pulling the pins for more camber. They had no issue with doing this and aligning to my spec. Zero questions asked and the tech mentioned they've done it quite a bit.

 

[optronix]

@optronix, I also asked the tech about doing the alignment and pulling the pins for more camber. They had no issue with doing this and aligning to my spec. Zero questions asked and the tech mentioned they've done it quite a bit.

Yeah... while I am a little surprised that a dealer is fine doing this- I think you have one of the better dealers based on the data you've provided so far- I've known for some time that my local tuner is not quite the gold standard. The hunt is on for finding an S-tier shop, and I've tracked down a couple but they're each over an hour away... end of the day that's fine, my plans for this car are super mild and I think my local shop is well-equipped to meet my needs for the "small stuff", but if I do ever get more serious about modifications or track prep, I will be looking elsewhere.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Yeah... while I am a little surprised that a dealer is fine doing this- I think you have one of the better dealers based on the data you've provided so far- I've known for some time that my local tuner is not quite the gold standard. The hunt is on for finding an S-tier shop, and I've tracked down a couple but they're each over an hour away... end of the day that's fine, my plans for this car are super mild and I think my local shop is well-equipped to meet my needs for the "small stuff", but if I do ever get more serious about modifications or track prep, I will be looking elsewhere.

They're definitely not a bad dealer, but I do think wherever they got my car from (they admitted it was traded over to balance inventory) that there's some shoddy tech doing the black badge installs. That person is just purely lazy and messed up too many things. The paint issues and holograms I've never been to worried over... That's just typical dealer shenanigans I've seen from every dealer from Nissan and dodge (my two bottom shelf choices) to audi and Bentley (my top shelf choices).

The fact my dealer is well aware of pulling the pins and has done it for more camber I hope brings a bit of comfort to you if you do go down that route.

 

[optronix]

They're definitely not a bad dealer, but I do think wherever they got my car from (they admitted it was traded over to balance inventory) that there's some shoddy tech doing the black badge installs. That person is just purely lazy and messed up too many things. The paint issues and holograms I've never been to worried over... That's just typical dealer shenanigans I've seen from every dealer from Nissan and dodge (my two bottom shelf choices) to audi and Bentley (my top shelf choices).

The fact my dealer is well aware of pulling the pins and has done it for more camber I hope brings a bit of comfort to you if you do go down that route.

I may have to have my dealer do it... the tuner shop just doesn't have the depth of knowledge on this platform I was hoping for/expecting.

I figured your badge install was the root cause of many of your rattle/noise issues, and it makes sense. I truly do hope your dealer can get it sorted for you, because I get it- noises can be a huge detractor from the overall ownership experience. It's easy to sit on my high horse because my car so far has had very limited noise issues... but the "wastegate" noise thing was a huge distraction when I first noticed it, and still is to some extent.

That actually reminds me- I still have yet to have my dealer vet that noise out, I figure I better get that going just in case it turns into a real issue down the road. Maybe have them pull the pins and get an alignment while I'm at it... and also gauge their tolerance for aftermarket parts.

As for paint/hologram issues... again, to my eyes the paint on my car, as well as panel gaps/fitment, etc. has been pretty much perfect. I have zero complaints, so in that sense I appear to be on the lucky side... but the worst paint condition I've ever seen was the rear decklid on my brand spanking new 718 GTS 4.0. I didn't take any pictures of it because frankly, it was embarrassing... but the other side of that is Porsche paint quality is so good that the only way you could see it was literally under flourescent lighting; I didn't notice it until I was filling up at a gas station at night and the lights were reflecting directly over all the awful semi-transparent scratches.

The Arctic Grey colorway had a bit to do with it as well; it wore scratches and dirt pretty well TBH.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

I may have to have my dealer do it... the tuner shop just doesn't have the depth of knowledge on this platform I was hoping for/expecting.

I figured your badge install was the root cause of many of your rattle/noise issues, and it makes sense. I truly do hope your dealer can get it sorted for you, because I get it- noises can be a huge detractor from the overall ownership experience. It's easy to sit on my high horse because my car so far has had very limited noise issues... but the "wastegate" noise thing was a huge distraction when I first noticed it, and still is to some extent.

That actually reminds me- I still have yet to have my dealer vet that noise out, I figure I better get that going just in case it turns into a real issue down the road. Maybe have them pull the pins and get an alignment while I'm at it... and also gauge their tolerance for aftermarket parts.

As for paint/hologram issues... again, to my eyes the paint on my car, as well as panel gaps/fitment, etc. has been pretty much perfect. I have zero complaints, so in that sense I appear to be on the lucky side... but the worst paint condition I've ever seen was the rear decklid on my brand spanking new 718 GTS 4.0. I didn't take any pictures of it because frankly, it was embarrassing... but the other side of that is Porsche paint quality is so good that the only way you could see it was literally under flourescent lighting; I didn't notice it until I was filling up at a gas station at night and the lights were reflecting directly over all the awful semi-transparent scratches.

The Arctic Grey colorway had a bit to do with it as well; it wore scratches and dirt pretty well TBH.

Have you looked at the wastegate and touched it yourself? Definitely don't do it right after a drive, unless you want to play with a 2nd or 3rd degree burn, lol. I noticed it was really easy to replicate the issue and it's really apparent why it rattles. I couldn't seem to tighten the captive nut any more, but I bet a few washers between the nuts would help. I'm curious why they left it that way though. There has to be SOME reason because I've never seen a wastegate mount that loose before. I had a captive nut go loose on my mk7 gti and it threw wastegate errors at me until I retightened it and reset the adaptation for it. That was only a 4th as loose as this WG is.

Fun fact, some of the Porsche paint comes from audi and some comes from Porsche. It's extra funny because audi is known for having very hard paint, but also fairly thin paint. Our ink blue q7 had roughly 4.6 to 4.2mil thickness all around with never more than 0.2mil variance per panel. The Porsche paint on the other hand is fairly thin AND soft. Soft makes it easier to polish and make perfect, so always a tradeoff. The audi takes forever to get any scratches out... Forever.

My its varies from 5.8 to 3.8mil across the whole car, and the paint is pretty soft. The more orange peel heavy areas (vertical surfaces) have fairly thick layers on. I may wet sand those eventually for detailing fun.

 

[ABPDE5]

Dropped off the car at the dealer today to address several rattles. The tech rode along with me and was able to find the faint rattle pretty quickly being behind the infotainment screen and he was surprised it's there after they did the civic infotainment tsb. It seems that may be contributing to the under dash rattle I get at higher rpm, but we'll see. He agreed that the steering wheel ticking sounds like the cable reel going bad.

They're also doing the oil now that the car is at 1750mi and will be seeing the track on the 23rd. I'm having them take a sample of the used oil and the clean oil going in to send off to the lab.

I got a 24 rdx as a loaner. Plenty of rattles in it and it has the key fob rattle as well. I fixed the key fob rattle for them, which I'm sure they won't notice and whoever ends up buying the car will never notice but it eased my ocd for a minute. Brake feel in that car is really bad, though. Weak pressure, spongey feel, inconsistent pedal pressure, and just no feedback. It's amazing how much of a polar opposite to the its it is considering the brakes actually feel pretty great in the its.

@optronix, I also asked the tech about doing the alignment and pulling the pins for more camber. They had no issue with doing this and aligning to my spec. Zero questions asked and the tech mentioned they've done it quite a bit.

Where is your dash rattle coming from? I have one that's really bad in the cold (just started coming back last couple weeks), and I think I finally found the source... going to try and fix it this weekend.

It sounded like it was coming from behind the steering wheel or driver's side air vent... I believe it's actually under the dash.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Where is your dash rattle coming from? I have one that's really bad in the cold (just started coming back last couple weeks), and I think I finally found the source... going to try and fix it this weekend.

It sounded like it was coming from behind the steering wheel or driver's side air vent... I believe it's actually under the dash.

I have "two" in the dash area, I think... One sounded like center of dash by the firewall, but there's some plastic trim on the back of the infotainment that's looking like the cause for the faint rattle (that sounded like visor or mirror) and the tech suspects it's also causing the under dash sound.

 

[Victorofhavoc]

Looks like dealer is keeping the car another day, but they say they've fixed all the rattles! They told me the alignment couldn't be done yesterday for the rear toe, but I told them that's wrong (because I did measure it myself). They corrected today and got a final alignment in pretty close to the spec I wanted!! This is a solid setup for a 2-300tw tire. Car is almost ready for the 23rd! Just need to flush the brake fluid, now! I should probably test if one of my power bleeder caps will fit... Haven't even tried yet...

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