Integra Type S Wins 2024 Road & Track Performance Car of the Year Award - Completes Automotive "Triple Crown"

[optronix]

I mean a new one! The S2000 was gone after '08 (I owned an '05 S2000 for about 3 years, awesome car) and while the 2nd gen NSX was nice, it never did anything for me. I would and did own a 991.2 GT3 instead of the NSX and the P-car was much better overall in pretty much everyway.

If Honda took the premium compact segment and developed a pure RWD platform similar to the FL5/DE5, they'd probably double or triple sales IMHO. Anyway, I love my ITS.

The ITS has made rear wheel drive overrated. You even said so yourself- The NSX did nothing for you. You're also comparing it to a modern Porsche GT product, which is... interesting. I'm not sure why you would do that; Porsche arguably have the best engineering talent on the planet and they had 20 years of advancement in technology to work with.

My point is, at its price point, this latest accolade where it beats out the Dark Horse and the M2, and I don't even see the hot Caddys as contenders (even though the CT5V is well over $100k)- just validates that having rear wheel drive is not a necessity for a sports car any longer. You can't rightly compare the ITS to a GT3 any more than you can compare a 20 year old NSX. Last I checked you still can't really get a 991.2 GT3 for less than ~$150k (probably more like $175k...)? Come on. That's not RWD you're paying $150k for, you realize that, right?

Anyway. I would be excited to see what Honda can cook up if the reins were taken off. The last NSX was apparently a miss- I think it's a very cool car, but TBH if I had $150k burning a hole in my pocket I'd probably buy a GT3 too (or a... Carrera T??? P cars are so hilariously expensive these days...). But if they did happen to pull an LFA-style stunt and build an all-new, N/A NSX with RWD, I can't say I wouldn't be interested. It would also cost at least $500k in today's money too- and they'd likely lose money with every sale.

I'm not excited to see the next NSX be all electric. But I am actually a bit intrigued to see a hybrid Type R/Type S platform. Admittedly it will almost surely not be FWD, but I honestly don't give a shit anymore what wheels are being driven; the driving dynamics is all I care about and the ITS is about as good as it gets, ESPECIALLY at its price point.

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[acurax]

Apart from the oddball issues I've had with the car so far, it's easily one of my favorites that I've ever had! Drives really nicely and plenty fast for public roads. The car's feedback to the driver is incredible.

For those who are curious, these are the issues:

• Emissions / rev match / driving assistance / some other warning light appearing all at once - car went into limp mode. Dealership reset error codes and it drives normally again. Known issue to Acura, but no known permanent fix yet. Seems to be random luck as to whether the issue may occur again.
• Trunk button is stuck. My guess is moisture somehow got in and froze it because the trunk button doesn't even move when I go to press it. I can't open my trunk unless I use the emergency/manual override latch which required me to fold down a seat, crawl back unto the trunk, and then use a screwdriver to undo the plastic cover over the manual latch and operate the override latch.

I just experienced the trunk button issue. I ran my car through the carwash on a very cold day and after driving home the button wouldn't depress. I let it sit in the garage for a few hours to let thing thaw out and it worked like a charm. So my opinion is that it does appear as though water is able to get in under the rubber and freeze.

 

[QUIKAG]

The ITS has made rear wheel drive overrated. You even said so yourself- The NSX did nothing for you. You're also comparing it to a modern Porsche GT product, which is... interesting. I'm not sure why you would do that; Porsche arguably have the best engineering talent on the planet and they had 20 years of advancement in technology to work with.

My point is, at its price point, this latest accolade where it beats out the Dark Horse and the M2, and I don't even see the hot Caddys as contenders (even though the CT5V is well over $100k)- just validates that having rear wheel drive is not a necessity for a sports car any longer. You can't rightly compare the ITS to a GT3 any more than you can compare a 20 year old NSX. Last I checked you still can't really get a 991.2 GT3 for less than ~$150k (probably more like $175k...)? Come on. That's not RWD you're paying $150k for, you realize that, right?

Anyway. I would be excited to see what Honda can cook up if the reins were taken off. The last NSX was apparently a miss- I think it's a very cool car, but TBH if I had $150k burning a hole in my pocket I'd probably buy a GT3 too (or a... Carrera T??? P cars are so hilariously expensive these days...). But if they did happen to pull an LFA-style stunt and build an all-new, N/A NSX with RWD, I can't say I wouldn't be interested. It would also cost at least $500k in today's money too- and they'd likely lose money with every sale.

I'm not excited to see the next NSX be all electric. But I am actually a bit intrigued to see a hybrid Type R/Type S platform. Admittedly it will almost surely not be FWD, but I honestly don't give a shit anymore what wheels are being driven; the driving dynamics is all I care about and the ITS is about as good as it gets, ESPECIALLY at its price point.

I think the ITS is amazing overall, but I just think it would be a touch more amazing with RWD. That's my whole point. Honda has done an amazing job stretching the envelope way behind what was historically thought possible with a FWD platform, but it's still limited in absolute performance.

The 2nd gen NSX was AWD and just not as baked as the P-cars, which is to be expected. My point I was poorly trying to make was I think the latest NSX would have been an amazing success if they took the original NSX styling, updated it, kept it under 3,300lbs wet, and put a 500+hp twin turbo V6 in it that revs to 8k rpm, on a great rwd chassis with the proper suspension and brakes. Sell it for $150-175k depending on trim all day long and twice on Sundays.

Some of us are old school Honda guys who are now in the middle part of our career and want something special from Honda. Since my 5th gen Prelude, Del Sol, and '05 S2000, I haven't owned any Honda until I bought my ITS as a sixth car two weeks ago. It will be my primary weekend driver with my family along with my '22 CT5-V Blackwing as a less occasional driver.

Anyway, I want a special RWD car from Honda and I think a bunch of nostalgic 90's kids who drove Hondas back in the day want one too.

In the meantime, again, I LOVE my ITS and I'm happy to be back in the Honda fold after a 15 year hiatus.

 

[optronix]

I think the ITS is amazing overall, but I just think it would be a touch more amazing with RWD. That's my whole point. Honda has done an amazing job stretching the envelope way behind what was historically thought possible with a FWD platform, but it's still limited in absolute performance.

The 2nd gen NSX was AWD and just not as baked as the P-cars, which is to be expected. My point I was poorly trying to make was I think the latest NSX would have been an amazing success if they took the original NSX styling, updated it, kept it under 3,300lbs wet, and put a 500+hp twin turbo V6 in it that revs to 8k rpm, on a great rwd chassis with the proper suspension and brakes. Sell it for $150-175k depending on trim all day long and twice on Sundays.

Some of us are old school Honda guys who are now in the middle part of our career and want something special from Honda. Since my 5th gen Prelude, Del Sol, and '05 S2000, I haven't owned any Honda until I bought my ITS as a sixth car two weeks ago. It will be my primary weekend driver with my family along with my '22 CT5-V Blackwing as a less occasional driver.

Anyway, I want a special RWD car from Honda and I think a bunch of nostalgic 90's kids who drove Hondas back in the day want one too.

In the meantime, again, I LOVE my ITS and I'm happy to be back in the Honda fold after a 15 year hiatus.

First of all, I'm an idiot- here I am thinking "2nd gen NSX" was the facelift version circa 1997. So disregard my whole post, basically. I agree that the actual 2nd gen NXS wasn't quite a hit- I alluded to it but I thought you were comparing an old NSX to a newish GT3 and thought that was dumb, but I was in fact the dumb one. Moving on lol.

I do still completely disagree that the car is "held back" because it's not RWD. I think, really, if you're not making a routine trip to drift events or an empty lot to get sideways, RWD is pointless. The fact that there could be an M2 CS parked right next to my ITS, and I'd take the ITS 9.5 out of 10 times kind of proves that point.

Also- I can't reconcile having two performance sedans. I get that the CT5V is a cool car... overpriced IMO but a cool car, for sure... but wouldn't it make sense to pick one and replace the other with something that is maybe more focused? Replace the CT5V with a Cayman GTS 4.0 or 981 GT4 (... or ZL1????) Replace the ITS with an E30 race car? IDK, seems duplicative to me. I realize that's judgy but that's what I do on these boards.

 

[QUIKAG]

First of all, I'm an idiot- here I am thinking "2nd gen NSX" was the facelift version circa 1997. So disregard my whole post, basically. I agree that the actual 2nd gen NXS wasn't quite a hit- I alluded to it but I thought you were comparing an old NSX to a newish GT3 and thought that was dumb, but I was in fact the dumb one. Moving on lol.

I do still completely disagree that the car is "held back" because it's not RWD. I think, really, if you're not making a routine trip to drift events or an empty lot to get sideways, RWD is pointless. The fact that there could be an M2 CS parked right next to my ITS, and I'd take the ITS 9.5 out of 10 times kind of proves that point.

Also- I can't reconcile having two performance sedans. I get that the CT5V is a cool car... overpriced IMO but a cool car, for sure... but wouldn't it make sense to pick one and replace the other with something that is maybe more focused? Replace the CT5V with a Cayman GTS 4.0 or 981 GT4 (... or ZL1????) Replace the ITS with an E30 race car? IDK, seems duplicative to me. I realize that's judgy but that's what I do on these boards.

At absolute limits on the track, you're asking a lot of the front tires to provide lateral and longitudinal forces. You only have 100% grip at each tire. The rear tires are along for the ride, for the most part, in a FWD application. I still think an otherwise equal, but RWD, Type R or ITS would be faster around a track. It's just a matter of physics.

Anyway, I obviously liked the ITS enough to buy one. The 5BW is a car I've always wanted before they go the way of the dinosaur. I got a reservation as I typed fast enough when they opened and got car #26 of the six-speed 5 Blackwings. I want to keep it forever. Not too many supercharged V8 six-speed manuals to be made in the future and I just love it. Not for appreciation value, but driving enjoyment. So, I don't want to put 150k miles on it in the first 10 years, hence it does partial weekend duty. It's sticker was $98k with carbon brakes, mid-level seats, and a couple of other smaller options. Heck of deal IMHO for what it delivers. It's a monster and joy to drive.

On the focused front, I've tracked (and still own) a C6 ZR1, '22 BRZ and had a 981 GT4 and 991.2 GT3. Looking for a C8 Z06 or 992 GT3 if the right deal comes along. Those are the more focused, mostly track cars.

I'm not rich, but I'm a freaking car nut that puts a disproportionate amount of my money towards cars as I absolutely love driving, reading about cars, tracking, and just enjoying the man/machine interface. I'll drive anything that someone will let me and I can find the enjoyment out of practically any vehicle.

Back to the ITS, that car has driving enjoyment in spades along with a requisite amount of refinement and build quality/engineering. I'm a Honda guy historically, so I'm glad I'm back in the fold to some degree.

 

[SilverRocket]

You could buy a "new" S2000 Type R from Evasive.

I know, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm enthralled by the concept of the original Italian job Mini Cooper, a microscopic but fast machine that can zip in and out of traffic with ease. I mean in the North American market, other than the Smart car, what car hasn't porked up significantly since the turn of the millennium?

	S660	ITS	S2000 (AP2)
Length	133.7 in	186 in	162.2 in
Width	58.1 in	74.8 in	68.9 in
Height	46.5 in	55.4 in	50.6 in
Weight	1874 lbs	3219 lbs	2864 lbs

The S600 is 4 feet shorter than the ITS and still ~2.5 feet shorter than even the S2000. Let's say the bigger engine adds 130lbs (reasonable considering the A-Spec is about 130 lbs lighter than the Type S) you'd have a ~2000lbs car with 320hp for a ridiculous 6.25hp/lbs.

Also consider the MR platform and a 90 inch wheel base, that would be a riot in a way very few cars have ever offered.

 

[QUIKAG]

I know, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm enthralled by the concept of the original Italian job Mini Cooper, a microscopic but fast machine that can zip in and out of traffic with ease. I mean in the North American market, other than the Smart car, what car hasn't porked up significantly since the turn of the millennium?

	S660	ITS	S2000 (AP2)
Length	133.7 in	186 in	162.2 in
Width	58.1 in	74.8 in	68.9 in
Height	46.5 in	55.4 in	50.6 in
Weight	1874 lbs	3219 lbs	2864 lbs

The S600 is 4 feet shorter than the ITS and still ~2.5 feet shorter than even the S2000. Let's say the bigger engine adds 130lbs (reasonable considering the A-Spec is about 130 lbs lighter than the Type S) you'd have a ~2000lbs car with 320hp for a ridiculous 6.25hp/lbs.

Also consider the MR platform and a 90 inch wheel base, that would be a riot in a way very few cars have ever offered.

It would be a death trap too unless the chassis and dimensions were beefed up along with beefier suspension and brakes, airbags, side protection, etc. (i.e. weight). Also, a death trap for people that can't drive either as I bet that thing would rotate and turn unlike any other car on the market. So, inexperienced people would be looping and crashing it.

Sound fun as he** though!

 

[optronix]

At absolute limits on the track, you're asking a lot of the front tires to provide lateral and longitudinal forces. You only have 100% grip at each tire. The rear tires are along for the ride, for the most part, in a FWD application. I still think an otherwise equal, but RWD, Type R or ITS would be faster around a track. It's just a matter of physics.

Anyway, I obviously liked the ITS enough to buy one. The 5BW is a car I've always wanted before they go the way of the dinosaur. I got a reservation as I typed fast enough when they opened and got car #26 of the six-speed 5 Blackwings. I want to keep it forever. Not too many supercharged V8 six-speed manuals to be made in the future and I just love it. Not for appreciation value, but driving enjoyment. So, I don't want to put 150k miles on it in the first 10 years, hence it does partial weekend duty. It's sticker was $98k with carbon brakes, mid-level seats, and a couple of other smaller options. Heck of deal IMHO for what it delivers. It's a monster and joy to drive.

On the focused front, I've tracked (and still own) a C6 ZR1, '22 BRZ and had a 981 GT4 and 991.2 GT3. Looking for a C8 Z06 or 992 GT3 if the right deal comes along. Those are the more focused, mostly track cars.

I'm not rich, but I'm a freaking car nut that puts a disproportionate amount of my money towards cars as I absolutely love driving, reading about cars, tracking, and just enjoying the man/machine interface. I'll drive anything that someone will let me and I can find the enjoyment out of practically any vehicle.

Back to the ITS, that car has driving enjoyment in spades along with a requisite amount of refinement and build quality/engineering. I'm a Honda guy historically, so I'm glad I'm back in the fold to some degree.

No, I'm not rich and put a disproportionate amount of money towards cars; not as bad as I used to be but still pretty bad. I would say I "make a decent living". With two kids in college, there are absolute sacrifices that must be made or my bills wouldn't get paid. I am not rich.

Reminds me of a scene from Nothing to Lose with Martin Lawrence and Tim Robbins; Robbins' character tries to say he's not rich, so Lawrence's character asks "How big's your TV?". Someone who has multiple dedicated track cars is fucking rich, I don't care what you say.

I think the word you're looking for where I'd agree with you is wealthy. Reminds me of another quote from Chris Rock (and I'm paraphrasing); "Shaq is rich. The white dude that signs Shaq's check? He's wealthy."

As for "absolute limits on track"... come on, who's buying this car for that? It's not an "absolute limits on track" kind of car. I'd argue neither is the FL5... those are words that should be reserved for a GT4 Clubsport, not even a GT4 really. No one is pursuing FTD against these types of cars in an Integra or Civic.

What people are doing, myself included, is "having fun" on a track. This car is extremely approachable and arguably difficult to get into a nasty situation on track. Its limits are low but when you get to them you're still under control. Asking for it to be RWD so the limits can be higher... that ruins the point of this car IMO.

If you just have to have a rear wheel drive hyper performance car that has a Honda badge, just buy an LFA and slap an H on the front?

 

[Integra23]

Anyone notice in the data sheet it says fuel capacity 326 miles umm negative ghost rider we get like 250s

I hit 33.7 mpg today on a 150 mile trip. You can thank the horrible road conditions for this. Top speed in the 70 mph zone was 50. My return trip I was back down to 26 mpg.

 

[QUIKAG]

No, I'm not rich and put a disproportionate amount of money towards cars; not as bad as I used to be but still pretty bad. I would say I "make a decent living". With two kids in college, there are absolute sacrifices that must be made or my bills wouldn't get paid. I am not rich.

Reminds me of a scene from Nothing to Lose with Martin Lawrence and Tim Robbins; Robbins' character tries to say he's not rich, so Lawrence's character asks "How big's your TV?". Someone who has multiple dedicated track cars is fucking rich, I don't care what you say.

I think the word you're looking for where I'd agree with you is wealthy. Reminds me of another quote from Chris Rock (and I'm paraphrasing); "Shaq is rich. The white dude that signs Shaq's check? He's wealthy."

As for "absolute limits on track"... come on, who's buying this car for that? It's not an "absolute limits on track" kind of car. I'd argue neither is the FL5... those are words that should be reserved for a GT4 Clubsport, not even a GT4 really. No one is pursuing FTD against these types of cars in an Integra or Civic.

What people are doing, myself included, is "having fun" on a track. This car is extremely approachable and arguably difficult to get into a nasty situation on track. Its limits are low but when you get to them you're still under control. Asking for it to be RWD so the limits can be higher... that ruins the point of this car IMO.

If you just have to have a rear wheel drive hyper performance car that has a Honda badge, just buy an LFA and slap an H on the front?

I'm rich in spirit, moreso than money. It's all relative for sure. When you make $50k, $100k may be rich, $100k, maybe $250k is rich. $250k, maybe a million is rich, etc. You have stratification of the top couple percent and it can be dramatic and I'm on the lower end, for sure.

Anyway, you do a great job of explaining the point of the FL5/DE5 and you are 100% right. Those cars are approachable, fun, can be a blast on track, even better around town, great reliability, quality, engineering, etc and FWD isn't really a deficit for that use case. I stand corrected.

I guess, as you said, the whole point of our cars is the above and not FTD or bleeding edge of track performance. There are other cars for that or, even better, actual race/track only cars.

I can't afford an LFA and it's not a Honda, H badge or not. Anyway, if Honda came out with a nice rwd sports car, I'd want one for sure. I probably wouldn't get rid of my ITS either as it still serves it's purpose incredibly well.

It is the 2024 Performance Car of the Year after all.

 

[Nivek2slick]

I hit 33.7 mpg today on a 150 mile trip. You can thank the horrible road conditions for this. Top speed in the 70 mph zone was 50. My return trip I was back down to 26 mpg.

I average 22.5 but I drive like I stole it plus lot of hill's

 

[optronix]

I'm rich in spirit, moreso than money. It's all relative for sure. When you make $50k, $100k may be rich, $100k, maybe $250k is rich. $250k, maybe a million is rich, etc. You have stratification of the top couple percent and it can be dramatic and I'm on the lower end, for sure.

Anyway, you do a great job of explaining the point of the FL5/DE5 and you are 100% right. Those cars are approachable, fun, can be a blast on track, even better around town, great reliability, quality, engineering, etc and FWD isn't really a deficit for that use case. I stand corrected.

I guess, as you said, the whole point of our cars is the above and not FTD or bleeding edge of track performance. There are other cars for that or, even better, actual race/track only cars.

I can't afford an LFA and it's not a Honda, H badge or not. Anyway, if Honda came out with a nice rwd sports car, I'd want one for sure. I probably wouldn't get rid of my ITS either as it still serves it's purpose incredibly well.

It is the 2024 Performance Car of the Year after all.

You're sort of not wrong, I do agree it's relative. People in my extended family think I'm rich... and what makes me absolutely cringe is that I'm "technically" in the top 5% of all earners in this country (only need around $175k HOUSEHOLD INCOME to be in the top 10%- just think about that for a second). That's fucking RIDICULOUS to me. I know what I can afford, and I'm grateful for what I have. But I'm reminded of how hilariously inept I am every time I head to cars and coffee in Great Falls, Virginia, drive past some insane $10M+ homes ($10M in Northern VA isn't quite the same as $10M in Texas but it's still humbling, believe me), and check out whatever crazy Reventon, Centenario, F40 Competizione, LFA etc. that shows up out there.

I'm also in tech sales where in general the going is much tougher than it was just a few short years ago, and also the aforementioned kids in college so I'm also admittedly a little vulnerable and bitter right now lol. I lol because otherwise I'd cry. First world problems.

Anyway, that's where I've landed on the ITS. It's such a feat of identifying an open gap in the market for an enthusiast driver-oriented sedan, and brilliantly executing on it. I would have paid $20k more for this car, easily (ok, I would expect Homelink at $75k...). I've been a car whore especially the past few years but this one feels more like a keeper than any that came before it- and the crazy part that I didn't quite expect is just how much ground it covers when comparing it to "genuine" sports cars.

I think another form of validation is a recent trend of let's just say "well-heeled" people who are drawn to the FL5/DE5. I first kind of picked up on this when one of my "rich" buddies was talking about another rich friend of his who bought an FL5 to augment his 296 GTB. There's a reason that "money-no-object" kind of folks are picking these up, and this PCOTY crown is just one more data point.

 

[crepr12]

Congrats to Acura corporate...

 

[kjechel]

I'm enthralled by the concept of the original Italian job Mini Cooper, a microscopic but fast machine that can zip in and out of traffic with ease.

Perhaps you'd like this Honda VFR800 powered 1959 Berkeley

 

[SilverRocket]

It would be a death trap too unless the chassis and dimensions were beefed up along with beefier suspension and brakes, airbags, side protection, etc. (i.e. weight). Also, a death trap for people that can't drive either as I bet that thing would rotate and turn unlike any other car on the market. So, inexperienced people would be looping and crashing it.

Sound fun as he** though!

We make things too safe, I want some danger. I mean it can't be any more dangerous than a liter bike. The only improvement would be to make the frame more rigid so the power doesn't warp it but otherwise no extra safety features, got to keep it around 2000lbs.

Perhaps you'd like this Honda VFR800 powered 1959 Berkeley

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