Is revving and clutching in all the way damaging the clutch?

[ken_teggy88]

I noticed I get more burbles when I'm in gear and clutched in all the way, just wondering if this harms/burns the clutch?

Thanks

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[boosted_canoe]

the clutch shouldn't experience any wear with the pedal to the floor. unless it's out of adjustment.

 

[whtciv2k]

It does not. You’re fine.

 

[Fred 930]

No - But one terrible thing for the clutch and drive-train is the horrible "Rev Hang" problem, which makes it very difficult to shift smoothly at high RPM. I remain hopeful Honda will someday issue s software update to eliminate the problem. It's a major design flaw in an otherwise remarkable car.

 

[whtciv2k]

There are ways to still drive smoothly. This rev hang has been around for a very long time my 2003 accord had it.

 

[Mr. LargeCoffee]

No - But one terrible thing for the clutch and drive-train is the horrible "Rev Hang" problem, which makes it very difficult to shift smoothly at high RPM. I remain hopeful Honda will someday issue s software update to eliminate the problem. It's a major design flaw in an otherwise remarkable car.

Not Honda’s choice, this is done to meet emissions regulations. Every car that still has a manual does this. I’m sure there are tunes that remove or reduce this. Even my 1976 BMW 2002 had this, fortunately back then it was controlled by a mechanical dashpot on the carburetor that could easily be removed.

 

[CAN_ITS_ABP]

No - But one terrible thing for the clutch and drive-train is the horrible "Rev Hang" problem, which makes it very difficult to shift smoothly at high RPM. I remain hopeful Honda will someday issue s software update to eliminate the problem. It's a major design flaw in an otherwise remarkable car.

I've had older hondas all my life and when I got tired of driving older hondas, I bought the ITS because I wanted something "newer" so when I first drove the ITS, the rev hang really surprised me. I was aware of it before I purchased it but didn't think it was this bad. I can't get used to it. It feels like I might harm the engine if I redline it. I will be getting this turned off soon when flashing the ECU.

 

[nawfoo]

That's a gentleman's heal toe

 

[Fred 930]

Not Honda’s choice, this is done to meet emissions regulations. Every car that still has a manual does this. I’m sure there are tunes that remove or reduce this. Even my 1976 BMW 2002 had this, fortunately back then it was controlled by a mechanical dashpot on the carburetor that could easily be removed.

Sorry, but I must disagree. It may be true that all Japanese manual transmission cars have a Rev Hang problem (no idea if that's the case), but I can guarantee you it's not a problem with with my 2023 VW GTI, nor a problem with my previous 2009 GTI. Many friends have German cars with manual transmissions, none have ever mentioned this behavior - but I will "ask around".

Regardless, I like my ITS - it's a fine car. But its Rev-Hang is a design flaw that needs to be fixed. It will lead to premature clutch & drive-train wear, and certainly detracts from the enjoyment of both driver and passenger.

 

[Mr. LargeCoffee]

Sorry, but I must disagree. It may be true that all Japanese manual transmission cars have a Rev Hang problem (no idea if that's the case), but I can guarantee you it's not a problem with with my 2023 VW GTI, nor a problem with my previous 2009 GTI. Many friends have German cars with manual transmissions, none have ever mentioned this behavior - but I will "ask around".

Regardless, I like my ITS - it's a fine car. But its Rev-Hang is a design flaw that needs to be fixed. It will lead to premature clutch & drive-train wear, and certainly detracts from the enjoyment of both driver and passenger.

Well, rev hang used to be done to reduce emissions on cars with carbs and throttle bodies.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...-in-modern-manual-cars-is-there-for-a-reason/

Shouldn’t be needed as much for direct injection engines, so a tune should be able to reduce or remove rev hang

But apparently there is some rev hang even in modern VWs, at least according to VW.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/techn...revs-slowly-on-purpose-to-curb-nox-emissions/

 

[Fred 930]

..... But apparently there is some rev hang even in modern VWs, at least according to VW.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/techn...revs-slowly-on-purpose-to-curb-nox-emissions/

Thanks for posting the VW article - had not seen it.

Based on that information, it would appear VW (at least in 2020) was working to minimize the effect. Again, I had my 2009 MkV GTI for 10 years and never noticed a problem. Have only had my 2023 GTI for a few weeks, but based on only one tank of fuel so far - have not noticed any Rev-Hang. Certainly nothing like the ITS.

 

[Mr. LargeCoffee]

I don’t notice any rev hang on my Miata, but people who auto cross or track their cars do complain about it. I did have a Honda Fit that the rev hang was noticeable when driven with some urgency.

 

[bvanlieu]

Regardless, I like my ITS - it's a fine car. But its Rev-Hang is a design flaw that needs to be fixed. It will lead to premature clutch & drive-train wear, and certainly detracts from the enjoyment of both driver and passenger.

Lots of cars honda has made with this design on OE clutches over 100K provide us data points. Bad drivers shorting clutch life, not rev hang, is what one could surmise from the data. Majority of those cars also don't have any auto-rev feature either.

If its more pronounced without the rev match, I hear you but to state with certainty its a wear inducing design flaw I disagree with

With rev-match on, I can honestly say I don't notice any hang on the ITS the car goes. Had a 2010 Z that also had sport match which I left on, never an issue. Any jerkiness is the fault of the driver, not a rev hang (I raise my hand, first few shifts I can dump it faster as our other car has a much firmer clutch feel, bouncing between them I need a warm up shift of two )

OP regarding wear, you are engaging the TO bearing doing that for extended time, and over hundreds of cycles could shorten the life. Now are you shortening it from 150K to 130K? Impossible to predict with any accuracy.

 

[Fred 930]

With rev-match on, I can honestly say I don't notice any hang on the ITS the car goes.

Well - that's an interesting point. Having driven manual transmission cars my entire life - both on street and track - I'm used to heel & toe rev matching on my own. As such, I asked the sales guy to turn OFF Rev-Match on the first test drive and have never re-enabled it.

The car is in winter storage now, but when it comes out I'll try running with Rev-Match ON as an experiment to see if that has any effect on the terrible Rev-Hang behavior. If so, that would be a very welcome fix.

For those in warmer climates still driving their cars - Does turning Rev-Match ON have any noticeable effect on the Rev-Hang problem???

 

[StingertimeNC]

No. I still rev hang with rev match on. Meant to talk to my tuner about this. Definitely can be tuned out.

Only way to not get rev hang is to take it to redline. LOL.

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