Anyone else disappointed in the tuning capabilities of the A-Spec Integra?

[DE4Willyyyy]

dunno, just kinda ranting I guess? curious to see what yall have to say, though. I'm coming from an '06 RSX Type S, which unfortunately got into an accident not too long ago. went with the Integra A-Spec w/ Tech 6spd, and as much as I really do like it, the tuning is quite frankly disappointing for these cars. I understand, economy engine - obviously won't handle as much power as the K engine in the Type S. I just wish Acura at least, at the VERY minimum, put a stronger clutch that can withstand a higher boost rating. having to plan and replace the clutch, plus tuning and other bolt-ons... pita....

these cars should've came with a little more power. sure the torque is fantastic compared to my RSX, but it's missing SOMETHING. something that the Type S quite obviously has, but at a 15k+ premium, excluding markups.

also, these are the same engine and trans in the Si, apparently. so even the Si, a platform known for it's modding capabilities, has clutch slippage issues!

maybe I'm just spoiled from the high-revving K series engine that my RSX once had. that's not to say the Integra is a bad car, in fact, I've been having a lot of fun chucking it onto on-ramps. the chassis and the LSD is magical. the design is beautiful, especially the rear. the aftermarket is plentiful. the speakers and the interior is wonderful (despite some rattles). I plan to take her to the canyons and see how she fairs, and also autocross as I wanted to do that with my RSX, but never got the chance to. I'm sure the power is plentiful for both applications. but on the highway, I just wish an extra 20-30hp was present out the box.

I'm sure once I get enough funds to get the RV6 FK8 clutch + labor, and finally a tune... I'll have even more of a blast.

what do you guys think? I'm only a college student, and having this car at my age is amazing; with that said, I'm barely dipping my toes into tuning. I have only ever done bolt-on mods. maybe I'm speaking out of my ass idk LOL

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[porkster]

There is a thread on a Civic forum about members documenting issues, and the vast majority are from the 1.5L. It just has very low limits on what it can handle, and nothing about it was praised in the reviews of the Si. Just doesn't have the same soul or build quality as the older RSX and Si's from the past. It's the same motor that I had in my CR-V and I loathed that 1.5L+CVT powertrain.

 

[NoelPR]

As you said this is an engine made for economy and to please EPA (CAFE).
In fact, I prefer the Elantra N over the SI/Teg 1.5T

 

[chopsuey34]

Go check r/CivicSi on reddit. There's a thread on there about this topic.

r/CivicSi/comments/1hzqson/another_tune_question_why_does_honda_purposely/



"Honda engineer here. It's cost. Caveat: I do not work on the SI or any Civic project.

Making the SI more tuner friendly from the jump would require a stronger clutch, stronger internals (or the 2.0T) and better cooling.

The thing you forgot to mention is that, while the SI is underpowered vs the competition, it's also cheaper.

Honda knows that the typical SI driver is at least casually into tuning/modding their cars. If you make the SI into something that can be modded into a Type R killer with nothing but a simple tune, why buy the Type R?

Personally, I think the gap between the SI and Type R should be smaller, but there's really no way to do that cost effectively with the L15, and using the 2.0T reduces fuel economy and puts you a laptop away from making the Type R obsolete."

 

[Bruce85623]

My previous car was a 2019 Accord 2.0T Touring. I wanted to go back to a stick shift, hatchback, and tighter handling. Those aspects of the ASpec are great.

The Integra could really use that 2.0 turbo as it was in the Accord. 250 hp would really make it go. The Type S is excellent, but the higher sticker plus $5K dealer greed is more than I wanted to pay.

 

[whtciv2k]

My previous car was a 2019 Accord 2.0T Touring. I wanted to go back to a stick shift, hatchback, and tighter handling. Those aspects of the ASpec are great.

The Integra could really use that 2.0 turbo as it was in the Accord. 250 hp would really make it go. The Type S is excellent, but the higher sticker plus $5K dealer greed is more than I wanted to pay.

The markups are gone now. Most recent folks on here and on Reddit are getting under msrp regularly now. I got mine recently for 5k under….

 

[Bruce85623]

Yeah, I noticed the markup was gone when I went in for that steering recall. Back in May it was a seller's market for the Type S.

 

[Integra23]

A tune does wake the L15 up but with limitations of the clutch and limited torque with the economy designed internal. But hey you get a 6spd and LSD

 

[jayy_swish]

With the creation of the type r and now the type s it has severely hindered Honda making bigger engines because unless the type r or s see bigger engines or higher hp figures. They will not create any new engine or drivetrain that will come remotely close to those hp numbers since it will cut away from those sales. Low 200ish hp numbers is all these cars will ever see now. (In terms of the civic, integra, and future prelude). The Type R and S are Honda’s golden children lol. Not to mention epa regulations and Hondas future direction of hybrid+electric. I’d imagine in the future the 1.5T will eventually be phased out or only offered in the base models, have hybrid options only on the higher trims and the 2.0T in the Type R and S.

 

[creaturemachine]

The engine is doing fine despite my efforts to destroy it. I have more issues with the fact that it's little more than a re-badged civic with some fancy features tacked on and no AWD. Giving more money to the dealer for a type S wouldn't help since it has even less.

 

[dima_n]

I got a little over 40k on the odometer of my A-Spec and I must say i am really enjoying it. I got it at the tail end of Covid and Civic SI was going for more money than the Integra. I had a '95 GSR in the past which was a great car but wasn't that a rebadged Civic as well? Aside from little annoyances like the squeaky seat, having to press Individual mode button and Hold buttons upon each startup, oh yeah and lack of rear wiper, its been a great daily driver. Would it be nice to mod it, maybe but since its still under warranty I would hesitate to mod. In general I think the hate of the A-Spec is misplaced since it is exactly what the original Integra was a slightly better Civic.

 

[optronix]

I don't have any data or metrics to base this hypothesis on, but I just get the sense that the "tuning culture" has toned down dramatically since its heyday. There are a lot of reasons for that that I won't get into in this forum post. A thesis is a more appropriate venue for that.

But what I will touch on, is that cars today are far superior to what they were 10+ years ago. I'd argue the OEM Type S is a vastly more performant car than a highly modified RSX Type S. That is pretty clearly due to evolution of technology, engineering, and manufacturing standards over the past couple decades.

Also you have to quantify what "more performant" actually means. For me, it's the overall package. I never completely understood the appeal of drag racing front-wheel drive cars, so by proxy I'll never understand why people want to try to add power to a FWD platform. The Type S has all the power any FWD car should ever have. Of course, this is my personal opinion and many will disagree. I also have pretty much gotten to the point where drag racing in any form doesn't excite me and have shifted my focus almost exclusively to autocross and track events, where FWD doesn't present as much of an inherent disadvantage, and can even be fun in its own right. So I'm not necessarily coming from the perspective of just "making more power"... but that seems to be the focal point of what people are targeting when they're looking to "tune" their cars.

So when you start talking about taking a car that was clearly engineered for commuting vs a car that had far more emphasis on the "enthusiast" use case, the concept of elevating the "lesser" car by means of aftermarket modification makes less and less sense these days. In today's world, it's pretty clear that the technology exists to make these cars better from the factory, it's just a conscious business decision to not do so. The Integra A-spec (and Civic Si) were built to a price point. They're for all intents and purposes excellent at what they're intended to do- bring a strong sense of "fun to drive" to an otherwise mundane car. Asking anything beyond that is unreasonable in today's macroeconomic landscape.

You just won't find an example of an "over-engineered" commuter car like you would back in the day. If there is a way to save on cost while still delivering the bare minimum on consumer expectations "out of the box", that's exactly what you're going to get. So expecting a clutch to withstand 350+ lb ft of torque in a car that comes with <200 is just a fool's errand these days... but it was pretty much the expectation back in the late 90s through the mid 00s. I'm not 100% clear on the factors that contribute to this, but as someone pointed out from the reddit thread- it all boils down to cost. If you're an executive at a company, the continuous expectation is always going to be "more, more more". One way to accomplish that is to give the consumers less.

It probably is just that simple.

All that being said, it does appear that the Type S has tons of tuning potential. So maybe that's the "hidden upside" in upgrading to that platform vs trying to make an A spec into something it's very clearly not.

 

[NoelPR]

Personally, I think the gap between the SI and Type R should be smaller, but there's really no way to do that cost effectively with the L15, and using the 2.0T reduces fuel economy and puts you a laptop away from making the Type R obsolete."

How a laptop can improve gear ratios, handling, grip and braking?

Over the history car makers had made mid trim vehicles that were just a flash away to reach the top trim power ratings

EVOX vs Ralliart (Both came with the same 4B11T engine)
WRX vs STI (many generations were like this)
8th Gen SI vs JDM CTR
RSX vs JDM ITR

The only reason honda did it is to meet CAFE goals. Nothing else.

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