Defect in shifter/gearbox or is this normal?

[HappyKasper]

Hi all! 2024 ITS is my first new car ever, I've only ever driven 150k+ mile BMWs (all manual transmission).

In the BMWs, I never thought much about shifting - everything felt a bit worn down but the shifts were smooth and firm. I was excited to see how the ITS shifter would feel after hearing almost every reviewer say that it's a wonderful shifter and... it's been a pretty rough experience so far.

I picked up the car at 100 miles and in my first few drives noted rougher / more inconsistent shifting than I expected, but thought it just needed some getting used to or a few hundred miles of break-in. I'm one month and 1600 miles in now, and the feeling of shifting hasn't changed at all. Here's what I'm experiencing:

- If I'm in idle, clutch in, I'll need to push through what feels like a layer or two of resistance before I feel a nice "plunk" into first gear, but then I can row the gears pretty smoothly and each one drops in with a rather smooth, satisfying "plunk".
- When I'm driving, even with a very conscious focus to keep the clutch fully in all the way through the shift, I'll feel a satisfying "plunk" shift some of the time, but more often than not, I feel like I'm pushing through a layer or two of metallic resistance and some fine-grain sandpaper when I shift into a new gear. The experience is very inconsistent, and the amount of force needed to shift seems to vary with every gear change.
- Even when I shift out of a gear, I sometimes feel like the shifter is moving past some (fine-grain) sandpaper; other times, it's a very liquid "plunk" out of gear.
- Very rarely, most often shifting from neutral into first gear when I'm rolling through a stop (e.g. right turn at a red light), and occasionally when I'm shifting from first to second, I'll actually feel what I perceive as gear grinding, maybe ~5-10 "hits" of grind before the gear finally takes and I can complete my shift.

This isn't some DRASTIC problem, it's subtle and not easily replicable (the grinding I mention above has happened to me maybe once every 100 miles, and that's the most egregious symptom) - I've thought about taking the car back to the dealer and discussing this with them but I suspect they'll go for a drive and say "this feels fine". And yes, the car drives fine, but I just dropped $55k on my first new car ever, and now every time I shift gears I cringe a bit because I feel like I'm damaging the vehicle - it makes the experience a lot less fun.

Is all of this normal for a new gearbox and I'm being hypersensitive? When I'm rowing the gears in idle, and I feel those smooth "plunks", that's what I imagine shifting should feel like at all times - but maybe I'm just used to gearboxes polished really smooth with time and miles, and the rough inconsistency is how newer gearboxes behave.

If this isn't normal, what should I do given that this is a brand new car under the warranty, and I haven't even taken it to the track yet? I suspect that whatever is causing this is coming from the gearbox/shifter rather than the clutch, because of that smooth shifting at idle and because I'm not seeing any change in RPMs when rowing with the clutch in. For the first few hundred miles, I did suspect this was a skill issue and I was unconsciously starting to release the clutch early, but I've driven probably 200k+ miles in manual transmissions in my life and I've never had an issue like this; and more notably, I've been extremely extremely conscious of my clutch work as I've been trying to diagnose this issue - so I really don't think I'm doing anything wrong with the clutch.

Would appreciate any advice, so I can start driving this beautiful car with confidence!

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[StingertimeNC]

Anything is possible, but I expect it's fine and it's just so different than what your used to. I also get some slightly wonky stuff, like it doesn't want to go into first and I have to double clutch or just get things "lined up but letting the car move slightly, etc. Also going into reverse the same happens. I also think it's somewhat dependent on what the rpm's are. for instance, driving the car a little more briskly results in a better transmission experience. Also sport+ seems to be a better experience since the throttle response is a little more aggressive. Also seems like the quicker I am with the clutch, the better. If I'm driving leisurely, it's not as good.

 

[TheRas900]

I bought a new 2016 BMW 328i 6MT and although it's not a popular opinion, I loved that shifter/clutch combo. It felt very smooth.

My Integra A Spec 6MT does need more effort to get into the gates than that BMW or my 07 TSX 6MT This might be what you are experiencing.

I think the best thing would be to ask your dealer to test another Type S. Then you'll know if your car is having an issue or not.

 

[Integra23]

I despise 2nd gear in this car. If i don't pause when shifting into second it could grind. I bought AC Delco fluid just haven't had a chance to change the oil yet. I did adjust the clutch pedal but have had 1 grins since then. Had 6+ grinds since owning it.

 

[ITSDAD]

You may want to check this thread out, there are a few suggestions such as adjusting the clutch engagement point or deleting the clutch delay valve. Its likely in your case that the clutch engagement point just wasn't set correctly from factory.

https://www.integraforums.com/forum/threads/2nd-gear-grind.52230/

 

[PizzaGuy]

Do you have the rev matching feature on? It not only rev matches your downshifts but also your upshifts. Not sure if it’s affecting the feel you’re getting with the shifting but maybe try turning it off and see how it feels.

I drive the car with rev matching off. I tried it a little when I first got the car just to see how good the rev matching was, but I generally like it more with it off.

When I shift the car, it feels really smooth to me. At least compared to most manual cars I’ve driven before. That’s part of what I think makes it great. The effort to shift is low but there’s enough feedback to feel confident that you’re in gear and it feels like you can shift it fast.

When you shift, do you typically go in sequential order of 1) clutch all the way in 2) move the shifter into next gear 3) clutch out? Although I’ve not tested it explicitly I feel like the car tends to prefer that you do the shift action early on in the order. I basically start shifting as I’m pressing the clutch down. If you’re not doing that, perhaps give that a try?

 

[Brittania]

There are enough DE5/FL5/FK8 owners complaining about this that it must be either a real issue with a percentage of the transmissions, or be due to a specific shifting style of a percentage of drivers.

My FL5 has only "grinded" once when my timing was off between clutch and gear shift. Totally normal and user error. I do however occasionally get a crunchy feeling going into second gear where it feels less smooth and precise, while every other gear is always buttery smooth.

I live about 20 miles from Durham and if you wanted to meet up next weekend, swap cars and take a 20-30 minute drive, I'd be willing.

 

[optronix]

The only time I've experienced any sort of grind is when I'm driving like a hoon.

I've launched this car hard at autocross 30+ times and had it grind once, yesterday, during a short shift into 2nd. And I was wheel-hopping and I'm almost positive my left foot wasn't all the way to the floor.

So I agree- it's either isolated to specific cars or specific shift "styles". My car exhibits none of this behavior.

That said- after driving this thing for almost a full year now, I can probably concede that the shifter is not quite worth the many songs of praise heaped upon it by reviewers. It's good, arguably the best- but I've also owned several BMW manuals and it's not like the shifter alone is worth buying over a BMW. I can readily admit that now.

Not quite on topic but the steering though, absolutely better than BMW. At least since the F8x chassis when they moved to electric racks.

 

[Tryptones]

If I'm not mistaken, BMW manuals are direct linkage while the ITS is cable actuated shifter. You get a more satisfying gear change when the shift fork of a direct linkage hooks up. The ITS has soft rubber engine mounts which causes the engine to rock especially when changing gears. I installed the PRL rear motor mount to reduce back and forth motion. IMO the shifts now are more precise and none of the grinding from 1st to 2nd.

 

[Integra23]

If I'm not mistaken, BMW manuals are direct linkage while the ITS is cable actuated shifter. You get a more satisfying gear change when the shift fork of a direct linkage hooks up. The ITS has soft rubber engine mounts which causes the engine to rock especially when changing gears. I installed the PRL rear motor mount to reduce back and forth motion. IMO the shifts now are more precise and none of the grinding from 1st to 2nd.

No change for me with the RMM installed. I might try and adjust the clutch pedal. Also have the AC Delco fluid which I need to do. Maybe that would do the trick

 

[Frenzal]

Can you use Synchromesh friction modified tranny fluid with the LSD? I've done it on two Honda 6MT cars, but they had no LSD in the tranny...

 

[NoelPR]

I had FG2 and FA5. The ITS feels right at home with the same behavior of those two cars.
Typical Honda manual.

 

[HappyKasper]

Thanks all! Interesting to hear the range of opinions - the best move is probably to drive some other ITSs and ask some other people who drive them to try out mine. Brittania, I'll reach out - thanks for the offer!

 

[edido]

I would like to meet about the same issue with folks in the Bay Area CA. Feel free to ping me in private.

 

[ST675R]

When I describe this issue, it's not from driving hard. It's most common going slow. Pulling away from a stop (particularly left turns), driving casually down a side street or in a parking lot.

I basically start shifting as I’m pressing the clutch down. If you’re not doing that, perhaps give that a try?

For my car, shifting as you describe is the scenario it grinds the most. To avoid the grind you have to push the clutch fully before you shift. Sometime you'll still get a grind.


Here's my theory -at least for mine, and at least for now.
High level problem: Simply not getting enough transmission fluid from the Clutch Master Cylinder
Source of problem: The CMC mechanism for making adjustments is too tight. Causing it to be improperly adjusted from the factory.

• Video in my previous thread. That guy's problem was when driving hard - not the same as my problem. But the video was still helpful.
• When he adjusted the CMC, he did it easily by spinning the rod with his fingers.
• Mine would not spin easily. I had to use pliers that I covered in tape.
• I've had to adjust my CMC several times - tighter almost every time. (I went too tight once)
• BUT, the adjuster has started to turn more freely after several adjustments. I can turn it with my fingers now. Not easily, but enough to gain a little feel.
• A more freely spinning CMC adjuster made it easier to feel the "sweet spot" where you feel resistance.

The most recent adjustment has worked for a couple of weeks. It was the one I was able to do without pliers. Almost every adjustment has been to go tighter so it has been progressive progress, not a random walk. Fingers crossed that it's fixed.

A few things that don't fit my theory-

• This problem didn't start for me until around 5k miles
• I've made several CMC adjustments that "fixed" the problem for a short time, but it returned. This time has worked the longest.

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