optronix
Senior Member
Plenty of complaints about rattles for FL5s too.*insert something about lacking japanese craftsmanship like the FL5.
...or at least that's how I'd have expected this to go on the other forum.
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Plenty of complaints about rattles for FL5s too.*insert something about lacking japanese craftsmanship like the FL5.
...or at least that's how I'd have expected this to go on the other forum.
I wasn't, because people do legitimately think this. So I wanted to remind everyone that their expectations of fabled Japanese folded-steel car manufacturing nets the same result as our corn-fed Ohio car manufacturing.I was being sarcastic.
Well. I think you're preaching to the wrong crowd. Like I initially mentioned, people who think that are mostly in the other forum.I wasn't, because people do legitimately think this. So I wanted to remind everyone that their expectations of fabled Japanese folded-steel car manufacturing nets the same result as our corn-fed Ohio car manufacturing.
Lol. They pop up in here too.Well. I think you're preaching to the wrong crowd. Like I initially mentioned, people who think that are mostly in the other forum.
Most of the folks in here own a DE5 and generally don't have that illusion. I personally think both cars fall short on the build quality aspect.
Exactly. You can literally write, "I don't care, that's not what this car is about" for everything besides the manual transmission lmaoI don’t get this opinion. What does build quality have to do with “what this cars about”? It’s marketed as the more daily, street version of the Type R, therefore it should be more solid and refined. It’s not a track car where shit rattling all over the place doesn’t matter. There’s no denying the interior and build quality is pretty substandard for a mid-$50k car. I love the driving experience as much as anyone else, but when the only option I have to drown out dash and engine rattles is to blast music, the driving experience is lessened.
Have you bought one yet?Exactly. You can literally write, "I don't care, that's not what this car is about" for everything besides the manual transmission lmao
I think expectations are a huge piece to all of this. Even my 330i M-Sport had rattles and creaks. Went into my Integra and expected that, if I had the above with the Bimmer, I'd probably have it with the Integra. Most satisfying part for me is that I don't miss the Bimmer.Have you bought one yet?
I mean, I get it. If you stretch your budget to buy this car and your soul leaves your body every time you hear a buzz in the dash, then I'm not saying your disappointment is unjustified. It happens in the Porsche forums ALL THE TIME- the occasional dentist buys a 911 during a midlife crisis and has crippling anxiety because the road noise is higher than he's used to from the 3-series he just traded in.
Look, as proof, here's a marketing video they had to put together to try to stem the tide of balding white men's tears over brake noise:
So no, you're within your rights to be disappointed, if that makes you feel better. All I'm saying is it doesn't bother me. And maybe expectations are part of that.
At the risk of sounding pedantic, let's talk real msrp... It's a 53k car and typically 56k on a dealer lot. That's about 20k more than a base Integra and it's definitely not 15k or 20k in mechanical upgrade because they're not giving you a spare engine, trans, and brakes to take home with you. The mechanical side is more like 6k-8k in up charge to honda/acura at best.I think criticisms of rattles and other QC issues are valid, but I also think expectations often need to be tempered.
Acura may be a "luxury" car brand, but it has never carried a reputation for the level of luxury you'd get from a Lexus or an Audi. And, the Integra is their entry-level car.
I keep hearing "this is a $50k car", and while that's true, let's be clear: the Integra was built to a $35k price point. The Type-S has $15k+ in powertrain, suspension, braking, etc. updates. The expectation for this car should be that you are paying $50k+ for a car with a $35k interior / exterior. (And that's a $35k interior in 2025... which is equivalent to a $27k interior in 2015.)
I am not trying to argue that Acura / Honda spent $15k on upgrades for this car (re-reading my comment, I realize it can come across that way). I am pointing out that that is the amount that the consumer is being charged over the base version of the car and that the performance upgrades are the material "improvements" they get in return. No doubt the cost to the manufacturer was far less (and you are correct re: some of that cost delta also covering design, manufacturing, training, maintenance, etc. costs associated with a low production vehicle).... it's definitely not 15k or 20k in mechanical upgrade because they're not giving you a spare engine, trans, and brakes to take home with you. The mechanical side is more like 6k-8k in up charge to honda/acura at best.
They're justifying the cost for the "specialness" and limited production factor. There's a good 5-6k charge just because they have to shoe horn parts in and spend time designing. I'm also sure they charged up a bit higher because they could and to justify it being "premium" over the lower cost type r.
I am not trying to argue that Acura / Honda spent $15k on upgrades for this car (re-reading my comment, I realize it can come across that way). I am pointing out that that is the amount that the consumer is being charged over the base version of the car and that the performance upgrades are the material "improvements" they get in return. No doubt the cost to the manufacturer was far less (and you are correct re: some of that cost delta also covering design, manufacturing, training, maintenance, etc. costs associated with a low production vehicle).
If you are looking to maximize interior / exterior quality, spending north of $50k on a car with panels, paint, assembly process, etc. designed to meet a $35k price point is not efficient -- neither is buying a limited production car that has thousands tacked onto the price for no material return to the customer (beyond eventual resale value).
To be clear: I am not saying "Acura shouldn't try to do a better job with paint quality or QC" and I am not trying to say we shouldn't be honest that those issues exist with this car -- they do. I am just saying that the expectation for this car should be that you are getting the same level of quality for those things that you would if you spent $35k on a base Integra. It's perfectly fine to want more than that for your hard-earned money! But, you'd be better served looking for a car with a price-point that starts closer to what you're actually spending or with higher production numbers yielding better value / $.
(I am also not here to argue that manufacturers in 2025 aren't cutting corners that they weren't in 2015. Corporate rot is real, and it's a scourge on our product quality and selection, compensation, etc.)
I agree with everything you said above and like @Victorofhavoc said, expectations need to be adjusted because at the end of the day, the car carries an Acura badge, not a Honda and that's where the expectations usually start -- that there's some level of refinement.I am not trying to argue that Acura / Honda spent $15k on upgrades for this car (re-reading my comment, I realize it can come across that way). I am pointing out that that is the amount that the consumer is being charged over the base version of the car and that the performance upgrades are the material "improvements" they get in return. No doubt the cost to the manufacturer was far less (and you are correct re: some of that cost delta also covering design, manufacturing, training, maintenance, etc. costs associated with a low production vehicle).
If you are looking to maximize interior / exterior quality, spending north of $50k on a car with panels, paint, assembly process, etc. designed to meet a $35k price point is not efficient -- neither is buying a limited production car that has thousands tacked onto the price for no material return to the customer (beyond eventual resale value).
To be clear: I am not saying "Acura shouldn't try to do a better job with paint quality or QC" and I am not trying to say we shouldn't be honest that those issues exist with this car -- they do. I am just saying that the expectation for this car should be that you are getting the same level of quality for those things that you would if you spent $35k on a base Integra. It's perfectly fine to want more than that for your hard-earned money! But, you'd be better served looking for a car with a price-point that starts closer to what you're actually spending or with higher production numbers yielding better value / $.
(I am also not here to argue that manufacturers in 2025 aren't cutting corners that they weren't in 2015. Corporate rot is real, and it's a scourge on our product quality and selection, compensation, etc.)